gaigai

Admin:How would you formulate the guidelines to explain that the posts you outlined are welcome in GCC, without creating a long list with all possible topics a person can and can't post?


What is it that you and most people find objectionable? Jokes, current events, fights with DH/BFF/Boss/Boyfriend, Funny thing my baby/husband/dog said/did? That covers a whole lot in just two lines. Surely a similarly condensed list can be developed. Then if the guidelines aren't followed, delete!


Admin: I never said that every single one-word post is an attempt to bump a topic.As a matter of fact, majority of them aren't. It's about the intent -- an example of people intentionally doing something to circumvent the guidelines.

If the majority of them aren't, then is there a real problem? Like I said before, most of us might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night! We can see which posts are questionable. But if you believe that a post was a deliberate zit, er, I mean, bump, then delete that particular post. The "bump-er" will eventually catch on. Or not. :wink:

Admin

Not the choice of topic itself, as much as the fact that people like to push the line just a bit farther than where it is at the moment. And it never ends. So eventually, it all gets out of hand.

Some topics simply generate such behavior in people for some reason.

Let's look at this hypothetical scenario.

One person creates a topic about having a bad day, say, a fight with her boyfriend.
Right after that, another person creates a topic about her own bad day -- her boss yelled at her and threatened to fire her.
Then, someone else creates yet another topic describing how her day was even worse. And so on.

In a short while, it begins to look like a competition of who can post the most negative stuff and get more sympathetic replies.

Even though, the topics are independent of each other, it's clear (simply by the timing of them) that one of them "inspires" the next one.

And then, the sheer volume consumes the whole GCC section.

Similar dynamics can be observed with jokes.

But I don't see such behavior with pictures of Guam, for example :)

As I posted above. Negative stuff seems to "spread out" at a much higher rate.

We might end up having to go by the list of topics instead of some general guideline, but I would like to avoid it if possible.

Roben

Admin, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe there is any way to determine what posts belong where without human intervention - so someone has to read them, balance them against some sort of 'rule' and make a judgment call. No matter what that call is, someone is not going to be happy and will, eventually, be accused of not applying rules fairly. Pardon me for not applying for that particular job.

The 'rules' is what is at issue here. gaigai, by your earlier post I would have said that the sewing machine posts belong in the Main section, where people who could help would see it; it is quilting related, after all. See how the 'rules' get fuzzy? Multiply that by several hundred posts, and you can begin to see what Moderator's go through. The Moderator(s) may not have had any problem with, to use your example, barnbum's posts remaining in Chit Chat where they have always been - but the posts may have well been moved so that everyone was being treated the same, and if one wasn't then I assumed they hadn't gotten to it (that was my first thought, anyway, when I saw threads being moved.)

As for the idea to "just not go there" - people are busy, and will quit trying to sort through hundreds of posts. There is a reason subject boards limit or don't allow off topic posts. Why is it that I should not go there; it could just as easily be said 'don't post there." Is one any more right than the other?

There is a tone on the board of late that is disturbing - downright mean statements, negative comments about all sorts of things. This is new; this board has always been a positive place. Admin was making a very valid point about people trying to circumvent guidelines, making them even harder to apply fairly. I'm pretty sure he didn't deserve the answer he got.

Mousie

I'm just gonna go ahead and say, since it is 11:09 p.m. here, admin. i read every word of your message, but I did not read all of everybody's.
Admin, after reading your explanations, a lot of stuff is so much clearer to me than ever, and that is what I want to point out, something that I have always been a firm believer in....communication.
I don't have all the answers, this is a tough job. I use to be a moderator.
It's communication that opens up the way to solutions. We can't read each others minds, but it seems that so many are scared senseless to say anything, and I don't blame them. They don't want to be pointed out or chastised for being "negative". In the real world, and the world of adults, 'negative' stuff happens. I agree, not to let it be an end in itself.
Don't throw a negative out without at least some idea of a solution, or ask for some. In order to do that, you have to let ppl communicate with each other.
I saw a reply several months back, where some stuff had happened, and a member stood up and gave a fresh 'view' on it, and she was somewhat, 'hand spanked', but she had a very good point. She said she put it on the board on purpose, bc she wanted to know what other members thought.
Everyone is forced to either 'run the other way', go pm and vent to a buddy, or stuff it down. I'm very fortunate to be able to roll with it, most of the time, but I do hear about not so happy views, and think, nothing will get done, or change for the better of all, if there is no communication.
What's the worst that will happen, if there are opposing views? There's not going to be any physicality. i don't think we can throttle each other thru our monitors. sorry, but is kind of funny.
We can have discussion. that is exactly what we are doing right now, and nobody is getting their lights punched out.
I understand escalation, admin, you did an excellent job of explaining that, and I can't argue with it. I don't want to argue anyway, lol.
I just think that we are going from one extreme to another. On one end you have overboard/escalating threads...and then on the other end of the spectrum, is timidity, walking on eggshells, unhappy bc you don't want to be a boat-rocker.
Ok, the board takes more time to check out now. I accept it. I will have to prioritize, to make good use of my time.
General chit-chat: here is my view on that. Adults take turns. I don't get that a person could check out two pages of posts and not find anything interesting. If the majority enjoys a thread about somebody's new house or trip etc. then roll with it.
You can't please everybody. It's impossible.
You got something you think is MORE interesting than what your seeing? - post it.
I guess I must be quirky, bc I am not best buds with every single person on this board, although I feel friendly to all...but I hardly ever see anything that I am completely not interested in. I can support ppl, without it having to be a 5 star entertainment value. This is not show business, we are fellow board members. Can't we be ok with each other's topics. Let's practice some tolerance.
I for one, don't think anyone on this board posts anything, to be offensive, hurtful, insensitive etc. so what were they thinking, and who were they trying to reach?
PDA is good. Some are more expressive. hmmm, wonder who is like that? :roll:
I liked the pets etc. on chit chat, and the birthdays, and wedding announcements etc. bc these are important events that are interesting, and I hate to miss them. Why would that bother anyone. I don't get it.
But it did, obviously, so, I know where to look.
Sorry so long...my solution, sounds so simple, but I am not being facetious: let's all lighten up.

ai731

To be perfectly honest, as someone who is relatively new to this board (but has been online forever, and has been on this board pretty much every day since I joined), I don't see a big problem. If you're getting a bunch of complaining e-mails from a vocal few, than the thing to do is politely ignore them.

Really.

I've been online for years and years. I have belonged to a whole bunch of different message boards. On some, I lasted less than a day. On others, I've been around for over 5 years. This is one of the better ones I've been on.

In the few months I've been here, with *one* exception, I haven't seen any objectionable content. That said, I avoid General Chit-Chat and the Personal Diaries forums. Because I know, from long experience, that that's where the "my baby did something cute" and "my boss is mean" posts are, and I'm not interested in them.

My experience on message boards has taught me this:

1. Moderated boards are great. It's hell to be a moderator. Moderators get no thanks and lots of flack. The good ones have learned to deal with the flack for the good of the board.

2. Even moderated boards need a place for people to blow off steam. The "General Chat" sections inevitably turns into that place. Lock a thread when it gets out of hand, and don't apologize for doing so.

You don't need to write new rules, you just need to enforce your own standards. You're providing a wonderful place for us to get together and work together and support each other and make new friends and learn. Everyone here should be thanking you from the bottom of their hearts for that. Don't apologize for your standards, just make them the rule. It will make the board a better place.

In my 15+ years being online, there's only one other message board as well run as this one (check out http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/ if you're interested). You're doing a fantastic job. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Jan

Admin

That was my original intent, but as I said, it's not working out. People can't objectively judge how interesting their own posts are. None of us can. Or at least it seems that way.

Roben actually hit it right on the mark with the post above. So I'll quote it:

Admin

I want to formulate the standards before enforcing them. Otherwise, any actions by me of the moderators (according to our own reasoning) would seem random (and unfair) to the users. And that would naturally frustrate a lot of people.

2wheelwoman

I’m still fairly new in interacting on this board, and am very happy to have it as a resource for quilting questions and discussions. A big THANK YOU.

I, for one, was happy when the new PDA section was implemented, as I’m one of those people who just doesn’t deal well with personal problems, my own or others. Some of the stories about illness and losses really trigger my depression, especially when there is no real tangible way to help. Real life can be awful sometimes, and adding other people's awfuls makes me feel even worse. I like the idea of those being in a separate location that I can either peruse or avoid for that reason.

As for the escalations, using jokes as an example, I sort of thought that was part of what GCC was for (and have posted jokes, because that's what I've seen), but now understand how it could take over the whole page. Another board that I belonged to had a separate thread for Funnies, and people would post jokes there. Then, if we needed a laugh, we could look at the thread. If we only had a limited amount of time to catch up on the board we could skip it till another time. Perhaps not having it come up on “Recent Posts” could be doable. I believe the jokes should be something that you wouldn’t be embarrassed about if your mother, father, kids or grandkids were standing next to you when you told it. If they're off-color, you can pm the members you know would appreciate them and not find them offensive, or perhaps put May Offend in the subject line so members can skip it if they choose.

For the dilemma of “what to post in GCC” I favor the idea of the scope of it to be positive messages that everyone would enjoy, like finding goodies at a garage sale, or pictures of your corner of the world, or funny things your pets or grandkids did, or a brief story of your vacation. Sort of like the part of the paper that has the “soft” news. This section could then be viewed, or not.

As far as the escalations on other posts, if it’s being positive and interesting to all, it seems fine. Granted, none of us would like to see a whole page of cute pets or a whole page of vacation stories at once and have to scroll back a couple pages to see something else. But there again, we should be able to be aware of the “look and feel” of the board. If we’re going to be the fifth post in a row with a picture of our pet, we should/could hold off until later. Take turns.

I personally wouldn’t mind having some rules/guidelines, for the sake of the board and our Admins, but that presumes that everyone will actually adhere to them, which apparently isn’t happening. If we each were accountable for our own posts – where they are posted – what they contain – and how others may react to them, things would be fine. Think about your post and really think about whether it's for everyone. Will it make people feel better or worse? Bottom line, we just need to let others have the same experience on the board that we want to have. And as long as I'm on my soapbox my personal pet peave is posts that just say “Help.” I’d like to know if it’s a topic where I could actually provide or gain knowledge. Much of this is already spelled out in the How To Use This Forum section. Along with the no-bump rule. If there are threads that Admin feels should perhaps be tacked to the top, rather than getting the constant bumps, that may help that complaint. I like the topic of "Explain Your Name" and would like to see it at the top of GCC like the Word Association game so new members see it and can contribute to it. It's been a fun way to learn about people...and is consistently being bumped to keep it in sight. If certain threads are being repeatedly bumped, Admin can make a unilateral decision on whether to tack it at the top of the page or to scold the bumpers.

We need to remember that we’re constantly getting new members – like me – who learn what they see, which isn’t necessarily the best way to learn how to interact here. Sorry this is so long, I just wanted to try to explain my reasoning. Hope I haven't offended anyone.

tlrnhi

The board HAS changed. Most message boards do about every 6 months, which isn't a bad thing.
The bad thing that has changed about the board is mainly what is being posted, so Admin MOVED most items in Chit-Chat to a Diary. I wholeheartedly agree with that. If you want to banter on and on, the diary is the place to be. Off-color jokes are where those should be also. I've seen my fill of off-color jokes here and on other boards and I don't appreciate them. The problem, I think and it's a HUGE problem is.....some aren't thinking when they post. It's nice to be able to "talk" to friends like you do over the phone or in person, but on a message board, the tone of the talk has to be a bit nicer...I think that's the word I'm looking for, not sure. You have to remember...ALOT of people read the posts. Some post, some don't, but it doesn't mean that what you said about someone who is having a bad day or the joke you posted didn't offend them. I was always told that if it's something that would offend me, then don't say it or type it. I have VERY thick skin, so I do let some things just roll.

This is how CHIT CHAT used to be. Was a nice place where you could go on a vacation for a few minutes and forget about your life for a few minutes. You could get a small history lesson or even just a lesson in love from looking at someone's pets, be it cats, dogs, horses or birds.
You could wish someone Happy Birthday or Happy Anniversary and make them smile for the day because that person has a whole lot of people giving them wishes.

Now, in order to view pets or see birthdays/anniversaries there is ONE thread ....not good. A person has to scroll thru entire pages to see whose birthday it is or whose birthday they missed. Or scroll thru pages to see someones pets. Sad......
In order to take that little vacation.....which the only people who will know about it are the ones who visit your diary.....you have to sift thru pages of someone's diary to find it.
I was on another thread and someone was asking about a picture that was posted on a persons diary. The person who "owned" the diary told them it was on page 48 or something like that. THAT diary has over 60 pages now. A person would have to sit for hours to find it if they didn't know where it was.
I for one, don't have hours and hours to scan diaries for things.
I liked it when someone would post Happy Birthday in a thread to someone.
I liked it when I could take a vacation to Spain.
I liked it when people would ask me all sorts of questions about life on Guam.
I liked it when people would ask me about my pets and I would ask them about theirs.....I think that's interesting to a whole lot of people and shouldn't be hidden in the Diary section.

My solution? Well.....
....What about a section for Vacations/Trips/Where I live.
People could post there about where they've been and such. It would be a dedicated section like Main, Introduce Yourself, Chit Chat...etc
....The same could go for pets. Have a dedication section for that.
....Jokes should stay in the diary...my opinion. Some of them coming thru are skirting the line, if you ask me.

But, not just ONE thread where a person has to read thru pages to find out something.

These are just my suggestions.

gaigai

But that is part of the problem. You are NOT doing all or nothing. A cute story about some foals gets deleted, but a post about how someone was tickled because their adult son made a comment stay.


And as far as intents go, Admin, you are wonderful, and talented and tall, dark and hairy :D but I never before knew you were a mind-reader! And that wasn't meant to be sarcastic, really. How do you KNOW a person's intent? If you think a person is doing something deliberately, call them on it and/or delete the post. But don't assume that you know what they are thinking. You know what assume stands for. (OK, that was sarcastic)


I thought the board functioned pretty well before all the new changes. But if people don't want to read about a good wishes request for someone who has had a personal crisis, or doesn't like jokes, etc. create two or three new topics. How about "Funnies" for jokes, etc., and "Life Happens" or "Milestones" for good and bad life events. Leave the diary section, it's a good place to be random, pointless, and even off-color, if a person wants.

And in response to the person who thought the machine stuff should be on the board, you missed the point. That new owner wasn't ASKING for input from anyone else on the board or she would have put it there. This was a one-on-one assistance.