ArchaicArcane

That's great!! Now you can get that 411g, (and 401G?) chainstitching too.
I think that the icicle stitch especially shows the difference between the internal cam and the disks. I like the disk version the best.

I haven't spent any time bonding with the Elnas either. The one that can combine stitches is out the door twice over, so I won't get a chance either.


I sure wouldn't pay that much more for the 503. Not worth it. My 403 was $50 from a thrift store, in a cabinet with the bent wire screw driver, a zig zag cam, and 2 old Singer oil cans, one of the small ones everyone looks for, and one rectangular that no one seems to care about.

My 503 was somewhere between $50 and $100 - but I got a lot with it: http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...a-t194988.html

miriam

Shhhhhhh don't mention prices - those babies were big bucks when they were new and worth every penny of the same now.

ArchaicArcane

LOL! In fairness, those were anomalies, there's a reason I practically climbed over DH to get at the one, and the other one I made the seller promise to wait for me and drive in despite having no plans to be in the city that day.

JudyTheSewer

The cleanup on my 403A is probably as good as it will get. I looked in the machine to see if anything was gummed up Miriam but it looks really, really clean to me. I tri-flowed everything very well one day and went back the next day and did it again. I manually moved the needle bar back and forth until is seemed to be moving well by itself. However, it still didn't seem to zag to the right as far as it ought to. I checked the needle position by piercing a piece of paper to the left, center, and right. The zag does not go as far to the right of center as it does to the left of center. Oh well, LOTS better than before. It is about 1/10th as noisy from when I got it and it moves faster too. Since it did not come with any extra's I made a little padded, drawstring bag to hold the accessories I happened to have from a drawer in a White treadle cabinet. The quilting is done with the cams I have for the machine. I can do a total of 6 different stitches! I plan on hanging this bag on a knob or pin somewhere on the machine so that I have the attachments close at hand when I use my "new" machine.
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ArchaicArcane

I love that bag!! I may have to try that for the latest 401 in the household.

I picked up a 401A this weekend. Yes, the really bad seized up one I said I left at the estate sale. The one that had been in a house fire. I went back for it because I thought I might be able to salvage the motor for another machine. Then DH challenged me to try to restore this one.

It's working. The machine is at about 95%. I have one stuck pin for the raising and lowering of the throat plate. That's it. It went from having the horizontal shaft not turn, the piggy snout seized up, the throat plate not moving, the slide plate not moving to everything turning, but no zig zagging motion in a matter of an hour. About 2 hours later, the zig zag was back.

The next morning (today) everything was freed up but the throat plate. The throat plate lever only moves the left side pin at the moment, and the other one is soaking in fluid film. We heated it, no go so far. DH has used cold in the past to free things, so we're trying that too. Hopefully tomorrow it will be free. Meanwhile, the machine has been completely cleaned and reassembled. It looks really good. Except for the slide plate and the throat plate, all of the corrosion is gone.

These are extremely resilient machines. If they could do a stretch stitch and FMQ they'd be the ultimate machine.

I did learn something interesting while messing with this machine. Not all of the black cams will fit on it. Some of the have a smaller space where the locating pin is, and the cam can't seat completely. The cams I have as spares came from a 648, so it may be worth looking carefully at which ones a person buys when getting them from ebay etc. *wanders off to go take some pics in case someone wants to see the difference*

miriam

It feels good to win one once in a while. I have one I haven't won yet. I think I did everything I could to it. This bad boy runs just fine with the clutch off. So I know it is not the motor the wiring or the foot control - besides I changed it out to make sure it is ok. This machine runs good then slows down to a chug chug. It does the same thing with a different motor or foot control. I thought I got it fixed the other day - I spotted a little bit of dried up oil in the balance wheel. It ran fine once it was cleaned up and oiled. I brought it home to sew on it for a while but it was running fine then slowing down AGAIN. I have cleaned and cleaned and oiled - the cam stack shifts smooth as silk - the zig zag glides - Joe suggested maybe the teeth are too close on a couple gears - I haven't seen where yet. I don't really know how that could be adjusted. It is a bit frustrating.

ArchaicArcane

Perhaps I'll think on it, and get DH involved. He's been working on motors since he could walk. Between the bunch of us, we should be able to come up with a reason. My question is what changes by the time it slows down? Has it generated heat anywhere by there? Anything swelling? I hope not, but.... either of those would close up tolerances and slow things down. Does the motor labour?

How long do you get to sew before it slows down?

The rescue 401 is 100% now. The pin was loosened by turning it upside down, hitting it with a rubber mallet from the bottom, then the side of a pair of pliers from the top until it worked loose enough to pull out. I don't think that's an apprroved use of pliers, but I won't tell anyone. Oops.

Once it was out, we cleaned and polished the pin and the "bore". oiled the daylights out of it and reassembled. Just like new.

If it hadn't had a cat pee on it sometime in its past, it would be a keeper. Peroxide, baking soda and hand soap took care of that, but I don't want to run the risk of one of our cats thinking it's a stand up litter box because of some molecule of smell I didn't get off it. Instead, I'm going to list it in the local Buy and sell. How much do you sell a machine for that you spent between 7 and 12 hours cleaning and tuning up? Do you tell them that earlier that week it was a boat anchor?

miriam

My question is what changes by the time it slows down? I want to know that, too.

Has it generated heat anywhere by there? I haven't checked for heat

Anything swelling? I hope not, but.... either of those would close up tolerances and slow things down. Does the motor labour? How would you tell if something is swelling? It is all metal. I don't run it on and on


How long do you get to sew before it slows down? It runs well for about 10 seconds then starts to slow. The motor has no drag on it when the clutch is released. I don't believe it is a motor problem. I'm wondering if it might have a bent shaft the hand wheel goes on. Maybe someone dropped it or something. (Someone knew - there was an incredible amount of oil in that area - I've never seen oil pooled up inside a balance wheel before. There was a pool of oil in the gear place where the motor goes, too. Incredible amounts of oil... or maybe grease..). I put a handwheel off another machine on it and it would not move at all. The machine turns very freely without any handwheel - just rather awkward to run a machine like that...

How much do you sell a machine for that you spent between 7 and 12 hours cleaning and tuning up? LOL I get the same as when I have a very nice one. I consider machines like that continuing education costs... and if after 12 - 15 hours they aren't going to work I set it aside for a while.... then again some machine are for parts... argh... I really don't need a parts machine and I paid too much for it for it to be a parts machine. WAH...

Maybe this one could be modified somehow to treadle... Any ideas how to do that? It IS a 401A not one set up from the factory to be treadled... The machine sews great - fine stitch - the stitch selector turns as good as new - everything is clean - machine looks great. It may be the only thing that will save that machine... well short of a new shaft...

ArchaicArcane

10 seconds isn't a lot of time... if you hadn't said you'd changed the motor out, I'd have said that was the problem. A motor with little to no load will behave differently than one with a "Regular" load....

Heat is an indicator of excess friction. It might lead you to the source...

I was thinking (and poorly worded it) that old oil and grease likely swells up a little as it warms. If it's sticky nasty stuff hidden somewhere it would cause a sudden drag if it were to do that.

ETA: Really Really well hidden. Like on the elevator pins we were working on. You could see on top and bottom where we'd gotten the fluid film into it, but there was a spot in the middle where it just couldn't get to, and that's what was binding it up.


I would think that a bent shaft would be an "always" problem.... The 401 I was working on had an unreal amount of old grease all over that entire cavity. I had to scrape it off and wash a ton before it was smooth. Until then, it was even hard to get the handwheel on. There isn't any on the "ceiling" of the handwheel area that you couldn't see is there?

Is the motor you're testing with -that- motor? The oil filled one? Grease would be "ok" I guess, it shouldn't run down. Oil could compromise the motor.

How does everything smell??
Is there anything out of round in the handwheel area? I'd be especially suspicious around that clutch area...

Do you have any pics? Maybe we can spot something all together...

This one was bought as a parts machine. I didn't think it would run again, or at least not well enough to stitch well. That was certainly an education. I'll list it for the "going rate" and see what happens. I think I won't mention the cat pee, it doesn't smell anymore anyway.

I'd say you'd need to change the handwheel and do a little bonding with your dremel. That's a best guess at this point. Will the 411G or the 401G handwheel fit? I know the 411 has a different style handwheel.... should work the same though.

Oh! And a sidewinder. I don't think the bobbin winder would survive the conversion.

Just on a lark,.. what happens with a different handwheel?

Are there any rub marks anywhere to say that something's rubbing somewhere it shouldn't?

Will get DH to read this when he gets home and see if he has any input.

miriam

The balance wheel has a little bit of out of wobble - just a little when it is turning - barely noticeable. Probably wouldn't be a problem with a belt driven machine.
I cleaned up the balance wheel 'hole' area very thoroughly the other day when this first came up.
I changed out a hand wheel off my parts machine and it would not turn at all. I giggled it around. nadda.
I don not see any rub marks.
No odd smells - wrong - it does have a little oil smell
I'm also thinking one little chunk of dried up goo in the motor gear could do it. I need to pull it out one of these days and go at it with a pointy object and some cleaning stuff AGAIN. Maybe go over the teeth in the balance wheel AGAIN more carefully. It kinda sounds wa wa waaa wa wa wa waaa when it slows.
DH pulled out the motor and cleaned it up - it SINGS just fine when it does not turn the machine. When I pulled off the wheel the motor sounds great. It is fine in another machine. It is NOT the motor. He also tested every wire in the machine - it is NOT the wires. We also used a different and well working foot control off my go to machine. I'm wondering about taking apart the balance wheel and seeing what is beyond it - give it a good look see. Maybe there is something that can be traded from the parts machine without too much destruction...
I should tinker with it some more but I just had more therapy on my shoulder so I shouldn't get into it for a couple days.