The recent topic of do you pay over x amount has gotten me to thinking.
09-08-2010, 07:46 AM
#51
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Galveston Texas
Posts: 1,596
I think you have to take in to consideration all the hands that cotton goes thru before it gets the the LQS>
1. Farmers
2. Pickers
3. Clean and spin into thread
4. Made in to fabric
5. Designers
5. Dyed and/ printed
6. Shipped to distributer and LQS
Some of these operations may be done at the same plant, but it still requires different machinery. Each of these operations has overhead, and if the goods have to be transported to another facility that is another cost.
I would be better if we had an accurate rate for each of these steps, but it sure goes thru a lot of hands before we see it. I would like fabric to be less expensive but it sounds like it is relatively cheap in the US. Maybe we need to count our blessings.
1. Farmers
2. Pickers
3. Clean and spin into thread
4. Made in to fabric
5. Designers
5. Dyed and/ printed
6. Shipped to distributer and LQS
Some of these operations may be done at the same plant, but it still requires different machinery. Each of these operations has overhead, and if the goods have to be transported to another facility that is another cost.
I would be better if we had an accurate rate for each of these steps, but it sure goes thru a lot of hands before we see it. I would like fabric to be less expensive but it sounds like it is relatively cheap in the US. Maybe we need to count our blessings.
09-08-2010, 07:50 AM
#52
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Galveston Texas
Posts: 1,596
Originally Posted by cattailsquilts
To all the Americans on here, the comments about the various countries V.A.T. (Value Added Taxes) are a HUGE reason why we DON'T want Obama's VAT proposal to go through! We love our comparatively inexpensive fabric prices, but if that VAT tax passes, then our prices will jump tremendously as well, and it won't just be our fabrics, it will be our threads, needles, machines, everything.
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
09-08-2010, 07:51 AM
#53
Super Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Orchard Park, NY (near Buffalo, which is near Niagara Falls)
Posts: 3,884
Originally Posted by quiltilicious
Originally Posted by LittleMo
My LQS owner was complaining to me that her purchase price on a particular line of fabric was more than what Spotlight was charging retail for the exactly the same line. She had to place her order over 12 months ago. What the importer had left over (orders not honoured?) was offered to Spotlight at a bargain basement price. Any why not, the importer had already made his money from all the LQS's. It sure made the LQS owner look greedy, but she could not match the Spotlight price without losing money.
Someone is making alot of money, but it is not the LQS owners. By the time we buy fabric, it has been through alot of middle men each wanting to take their cut.
Someone is making alot of money, but it is not the LQS owners. By the time we buy fabric, it has been through alot of middle men each wanting to take their cut.
Your LQS will likely not have a contract with anyone, be it an importer or a manufacturer. The manufacturers probably do have contracts with mills, but I believe the way that works is that the manufacter agrees to purchase x yards at x price. So in theory there should not be any extra yardage produced. However, if the manufacturer is not able to sell all they have left, they'll clearance it.
09-08-2010, 07:59 AM
#54
Super Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Orchard Park, NY (near Buffalo, which is near Niagara Falls)
Posts: 3,884
Originally Posted by 2ursula
Here is where my anger knows no bounds:
How does anybody arrive at prices of US$ 10 - 20 when cotton growers get paid pennies per pound of cotton? How do you explain that the costs of printing are also only pennies/yard because poor people in so-called under-developed countries must eat and therefore agree to work for any kind of wages?
Somewhere in this unnecessarily long chain of many people with both their hands open to receive and the few people who provide genuine services, at some point in this chain of profit takers pennies turn into dollars.
I would be content paying reasonable prices (US$5 - 6/yard) for today's excellent cotton fabric if - and this is the BIG "IF" - if the people who actually grow the cotton and then know how to do the printing using the hard-earned skills of thousands of years - IF they would get at least half of that price.
That would leave enough for doing all those services you talked about in your post. Anybody can do those services. They don't require special skills like growing cotton and creating the end product.
Somewhere in this long chain of paid services the people with the least skills have managed to siphon off the most money.
How about some solidarity with those people who actually create the product? They need some advocates. Who should sympathize with them if not quilters who know the value of good work.
How does anybody arrive at prices of US$ 10 - 20 when cotton growers get paid pennies per pound of cotton? How do you explain that the costs of printing are also only pennies/yard because poor people in so-called under-developed countries must eat and therefore agree to work for any kind of wages?
Somewhere in this unnecessarily long chain of many people with both their hands open to receive and the few people who provide genuine services, at some point in this chain of profit takers pennies turn into dollars.
I would be content paying reasonable prices (US$5 - 6/yard) for today's excellent cotton fabric if - and this is the BIG "IF" - if the people who actually grow the cotton and then know how to do the printing using the hard-earned skills of thousands of years - IF they would get at least half of that price.
That would leave enough for doing all those services you talked about in your post. Anybody can do those services. They don't require special skills like growing cotton and creating the end product.
Somewhere in this long chain of paid services the people with the least skills have managed to siphon off the most money.
How about some solidarity with those people who actually create the product? They need some advocates. Who should sympathize with them if not quilters who know the value of good work.
Yes, the workers in developing nations do need to be paid properly. Everyone deserves to have clean drinking water and a roof that doesn't leak, at minimum!
I think this is a similar issue to "free trade" coffee or chocolate. And we all know, while we *can* seek out "free trade/equitable wages" products, the marketplace as a whole does not work that way.
As long as there are people who are desperate for ANY income, we will have this problem, because they will be willing to take on a job that does not pay well.
Personally, I would be willing to pay a little more for everything so that others might be able to live better. However... I'm one of the lucky ones who has that wiggle room in the household budget. Reading the many posts on this forum, I know that not everyone is in that position. Some of us are living on a shoestring.
So, those of us who can make buying decisions based on moral and ethical issues, should. And should teach our kids or grandkids to purchase thoughtfully as well.
09-08-2010, 08:00 AM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 573
Originally Posted by Favorite Fabrics
Originally Posted by quiltilicious
Originally Posted by LittleMo
My LQS owner was complaining to me that her purchase price on a particular line of fabric was more than what Spotlight was charging retail for the exactly the same line. She had to place her order over 12 months ago. What the importer had left over (orders not honoured?) was offered to Spotlight at a bargain basement price. Any why not, the importer had already made his money from all the LQS's. It sure made the LQS owner look greedy, but she could not match the Spotlight price without losing money.
Someone is making alot of money, but it is not the LQS owners. By the time we buy fabric, it has been through alot of middle men each wanting to take their cut.
Someone is making alot of money, but it is not the LQS owners. By the time we buy fabric, it has been through alot of middle men each wanting to take their cut.
Your LQS will likely not have a contract with anyone, be it an importer or a manufacturer. The manufacturers probably do have contracts with mills, but I believe the way that works is that the manufacter agrees to purchase x yards at x price. So in theory there should not be any extra yardage produced. However, if the manufacturer is not able to sell all they have left, they'll clearance it.
I guess that's why I'm not wealthy, because I don't want to screw people over. :?
09-08-2010, 08:06 AM
#56
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by galvestonangel
Originally Posted by cattailsquilts
To all the Americans on here, the comments about the various countries V.A.T. (Value Added Taxes) are a HUGE reason why we DON'T want Obama's VAT proposal to go through! We love our comparatively inexpensive fabric prices, but if that VAT tax passes, then our prices will jump tremendously as well, and it won't just be our fabrics, it will be our threads, needles, machines, everything.
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
Let's say the people in Germany pay 20 % VAT, I pay 9 % sales tax (the same animal) here in the USA.
These fast and angry responses to tax policies just won't cut it.
The USA spends more on the military than any other country on earth. More than the next 7 highest military spenders on our beautiful (not yet completely destroyed) planet.
(All told, military spending, not war spending, accounts for between 50 and 60 % of the US budget.)
What you call all those "tax payer donations" is highly irrelevant. In the end, the same people pay (guess who). You need to compare spending on the tax payers' dimes if you want to come up with a rational comparison.
This also applies to prices in Australia and the USA. If the wages are generally higher than the prices can be higher.
Direct comparisons between countries are just not rational. A person who makes US$ 20,000/year in the USA has to scrap by. An Indian getting the same salary on the other hand lives like a king on the Rupies equivalent to US$ 20,000.00.
Let's not compare steak and peanuts.
09-08-2010, 08:16 AM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by cattailsquilts
To all the Americans on here, the comments about the various countries V.A.T. (Value Added Taxes) are a HUGE reason why we DON'T want Obama's VAT proposal to go through! We love our comparatively inexpensive fabric prices, but if that VAT tax passes, then our prices will jump tremendously as well, and it won't just be our fabrics, it will be our threads, needles, machines, everything.
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
To use an example from here ---- a metre of fabric has a price tag of $15.00. When I take it to the cash register, 13% sales tax is added ($1.95), making my total price for the metre of fabric to be $16.95.
With the VAT system, the price tag on the metre of fabric would be $16.95 and that is what you would pay at the register.
To those in the UK, please correct me if I am wrong.
09-08-2010, 08:17 AM
#58
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by quilter on the eastern edge
Originally Posted by cattailsquilts
To all the Americans on here, the comments about the various countries V.A.T. (Value Added Taxes) are a HUGE reason why we DON'T want Obama's VAT proposal to go through! We love our comparatively inexpensive fabric prices, but if that VAT tax passes, then our prices will jump tremendously as well, and it won't just be our fabrics, it will be our threads, needles, machines, everything.
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
To use an example from here ---- a metre of fabric has a price tag of $15.00. When I take it to the cash register, 13% sales tax is added ($1.95), making my total price for the metre of fabric to be $16.95.
With the VAT system, the price tag on the metre of fabric would be $16.95 and that is what you would pay at the register.
To those in the UK, please correct me if I am wrong.
I know for a fact that it is done the same way in Germany. The price on the tag is the price you pay at the cash register.
09-08-2010, 08:34 AM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ramsgate. Kent England
Posts: 441
Originally Posted by Cuilteanna
Originally Posted by BellaBoo
I'm just guessing here but it seems that someone overseas could order lots of fabric from say Hancock's of Paducah as a customer sell it for $2 over the cost per yard over what it cost them and sell it out of their home and make a profit. Travel to guilds/groups in the area and sell it to sewers.
Long ago a friend of a friend used to sell fabric her husband would bring her back from business trips to the US. She charged just over her cost, but you had to be a friend and have the same taste in fabrics as herself!
Fabric.com does ship internationally, as do many of the other online sites like Fabric Depot, Hancocks of Paducah, Keepsake Quilting, Erica's (those are just some I've used over the years). Global Priority envelopes used to slide through most frequently and I sometimes had an order in less than a week! Those were the good days before money was such an issue, LOL.
Now I mainly do mini's, table runners, wallhangings or lap quilts (which are quilted on to a fleece blanket instead of batting and backing, which saves a LOT of money!)
09-08-2010, 08:51 AM
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 739
Taxes are the biggest problem when I order in the US( or somewhere else outside Europe)
And the larger the order, the more likely you'll be caught for customs and VAT. Sometimes a priority enveloppe will slip trough, then you are a happy camper!
The other problems are sales. Because when I buy something on sale, our customservice will handle it if it was the original price. So then you have to pay even more taxes!
Only when there is a sale at onlines shops at the UK I will order there, UK is Europe and so taxfree for me!
And the larger the order, the more likely you'll be caught for customs and VAT. Sometimes a priority enveloppe will slip trough, then you are a happy camper!
The other problems are sales. Because when I buy something on sale, our customservice will handle it if it was the original price. So then you have to pay even more taxes!
Only when there is a sale at onlines shops at the UK I will order there, UK is Europe and so taxfree for me!
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