Can you ID this sewing machine?
#21
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Location: Victorian Sweatshop Forum
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Copying manuals to sell is another one of those hot buttons, obviously. I'm all for looking for a free one if it's available somewhere, but sometimes it's not. Two trains of thought here-
1. There are people who go about it legitimately. Linda Wilkens spends tons of money in legal fees to own the rights to the manuals she sells and she reproduces them in very nice hard copies as well as PDFs.
2. To my way of thinking the manual is one of the most important tools to have for a machine, any kind of machine not just a sewing machine. Especially if it's a machine you're not familiar with. I don't understand why someone wouldn't be willing to pay for a manual to be able to operate and get the most out of a machine, regardless of how much or how little the machine costs. I bought one of my embroidery machines used and if the manual hadn't been with it I would have gladly paid for one if I couldn't find a free one.
Cari
1. There are people who go about it legitimately. Linda Wilkens spends tons of money in legal fees to own the rights to the manuals she sells and she reproduces them in very nice hard copies as well as PDFs.
2. To my way of thinking the manual is one of the most important tools to have for a machine, any kind of machine not just a sewing machine. Especially if it's a machine you're not familiar with. I don't understand why someone wouldn't be willing to pay for a manual to be able to operate and get the most out of a machine, regardless of how much or how little the machine costs. I bought one of my embroidery machines used and if the manual hadn't been with it I would have gladly paid for one if I couldn't find a free one.
Cari
#22
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Centralia, WA, USA
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I don't think someone like Linda is what has people offended. She has incurred costs in getting the rights to distribute the material she sells and offers hard copies too. I think it's the "less reputable" ebay sellers that scan in anything they find without being overly concerned about copyrights then sell pdf files at ridiculous prices that has people upset. I'm not offended by people making money for their efforts but I do think the prices should be fair. I'm not offended by paying $10 for a physical copy but I would balk at paying the same for a download. So far I haven't bought any manuals for my machines. I've been able to find free downloads from either Singerco.com or ISMACS. The trouble is there are a ton of machines out there that have no free manuals available. I think many of the Japanese machines fit that category. Information on many of them is sketchy at best.
Rodney
Rodney
#24
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I agree, prices should be fair, but there again, what's fair to one person might not be to another. Some sellers are honest and some aren't, and some are just ignorant. $10 for a download, yeah, maybe seems too high, but for my embroidery machine if that would have been all I could find I would have paid it.
Cari
Cari
#25
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millville, NJ
Posts: 1,835
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I'm calling Bulls**t on this.
I scan documents and books all the time on my hp printer. The software makes it easy to do and if its 10 page document I can make a nice pdf file out of in in about 30 min's. Then sell it at 10 bucks a copy? No.. maybe a buck or two at most.. If its something that i have legal right to resell, as most of the stuff I scan is for legal purposes and is not resellable. The point is, its not that difficult to do and 10 bucks for a PDF file of any kind is a rip off.
I bet those sites don't sell to many of them. I noticed that several of the sites selling them are all owned by the same company. Buyer beware.
I scan documents and books all the time on my hp printer. The software makes it easy to do and if its 10 page document I can make a nice pdf file out of in in about 30 min's. Then sell it at 10 bucks a copy? No.. maybe a buck or two at most.. If its something that i have legal right to resell, as most of the stuff I scan is for legal purposes and is not resellable. The point is, its not that difficult to do and 10 bucks for a PDF file of any kind is a rip off.
I bet those sites don't sell to many of them. I noticed that several of the sites selling them are all owned by the same company. Buyer beware.
Jon
#26
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millville, NJ
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I take issue with them making money selling someone else's work, and I believe this is obviously wrong. If you didn't actually write the manual, how is it not wrong to make money continuously selling it when you've already made your money?
Scanning someone else's document and making $10 for your time is possibly OK, but selling it 100 times or more and keeping the $1,000 is obviously (to me) wrong.
Just my opinion of course. I have the manual now, incidentally, and have asked Bernina if it's OK to give it away.
Scanning someone else's document and making $10 for your time is possibly OK, but selling it 100 times or more and keeping the $1,000 is obviously (to me) wrong.
Just my opinion of course. I have the manual now, incidentally, and have asked Bernina if it's OK to give it away.
Should publishing houses sell there books at cost?---they didn't right it.
Jon
#27
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Publishing houses work with and pay authors, editors, printing companies and distributors to have original works printed and distributed. They outlay an enormous amount of investment capital and employ a large number of people. They are also a legal company and they pay tax.
Now, you want to draw a comparison between these pillars of education, history and civilisation to someone who finds a copy of said publishing house's work. They scan it and ask people to give them $10 every time they can click so they can ride the gravy train. It has so far involved no risk, no skill, no tax, no investment and very little of their time.
Can you see how ridiculous your comparison is? You really sound like you're trying to defend them and I'm probably not the only one wondering why.
#28
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millville, NJ
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or write it.
Publishing houses work with and pay authors, editors, printing companies and distributors to have original works printed and distributed. They outlay an enormous amount of investment capital and employ a large number of people. They are also a legal company and they pay tax.
Now, you want to draw a comparison between these pillars of education, history and civilisation to someone who finds a copy of said publishing house's work. They scan it and ask people to give them $10 every time they can click so they can ride the gravy train. It has so far involved no risk, no skill, no tax, no investment and very little of their time.
Can you see how ridiculous your comparison is? You really sound like you're trying to defend them and I'm probably not the only one wondering why.
Publishing houses work with and pay authors, editors, printing companies and distributors to have original works printed and distributed. They outlay an enormous amount of investment capital and employ a large number of people. They are also a legal company and they pay tax.
Now, you want to draw a comparison between these pillars of education, history and civilisation to someone who finds a copy of said publishing house's work. They scan it and ask people to give them $10 every time they can click so they can ride the gravy train. It has so far involved no risk, no skill, no tax, no investment and very little of their time.
Can you see how ridiculous your comparison is? You really sound like you're trying to defend them and I'm probably not the only one wondering why.
You seem to be saying it's OK for the Big Guy to make a Buck but the little guy should donate (or make a $1-$2)on his time and effort ? You really think someone can sell 1,000's of Davis, Grover and Baker or Florence manuals? I know it takes me hours to copy and edit with a pretty mediocre result not worthy of any money except as a gift. I have respect and admiration for those individual who can do this with a good result and they should not be ashamed like you are insinuating.
Jon
PS--Who are you defending---"The Man" (teehe)
Last edited by jlhmnj; 11-08-2014 at 05:41 PM.
#29
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I appreciate being able to find the manuals. If they're free, great, but if the only way to get them is to pay, I'd rather have them than not. It takes me a significant amount of time to scan and clean up documents (I do genealogy and family photos, mostly), so I can understand charging more than a couple dollars for a good printable pdf. And if it's more than 70 years old, I believe it's out of copyright in most cases. On the other hand, I recently paid $5.95 for a PDF download and I was really disappointed with the image quality. It was so tiny and light that it was virtually unreadable. The images showing oiling pints were so pixelated that I couldn't distinguish the arrows. So, I wasn't happy about having paid for such poor quality.
#30
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You seem to be saying it's OK for the Big Guy to make a Buck but the little guy should donate (or make a $1-$2)on his time and effort ? You really think someone can sell 1,000's of Davis, Grover and Baker or Florence manuals? I know it takes me hours to copy and edit with a pretty mediocre result not worthy of any money except as a gift. I have respect and admiration for those individual who can do this with a good result and they should not be ashamed like you are insinuating.
Jon
PS--Who are you defending---"The Man" (teehe)
Jon
PS--Who are you defending---"The Man" (teehe)
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