The Machine That I Fiddled With Today
03-29-2014, 07:17 PM
#241
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
Well, as mentioned in another thread, I'm playing with a 31-15. I picked it up in the buy and sell here on Thursday. It was seized and rather grumpy when I got it. The needlebar was 3/8" too low (I pulled it and I'm 99% sure it's straight - there aren't many dead flat things in our house, so I improvised), and the needle clamp was hitting the presser foot. Obviously at that point, stitching is out of the question. I have most of the problems worked out now, and it's stitching. I'm not positive if I'm seeing wear between the shuttle carrier and the hook, but it seems like there's more movement than there should be. I can order the parts and replace them, or use them to compare and I think I will. I'm learning that there are fewer resources for fixing the industrials than the domestics. I still haven't found a service manual anywhere, so I'm operating blind as far as measurements.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]469351[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]469352[/ATTACH]
Right now, I'm looking for resources on servicing the motor it has (S-94161-R) and I'm finding nothing at all. I know very little about clutch motors, and am a little reluctant to get in there without some sort of guidance at all! Does anyone have any good resources? It's really grungy in there, but I don't want to take anything apart if it's anything like the main spring wind up clock I took apart when I was a teen....
I put a belt on it today, but I think it's too loose because as soon as I fire it up, it tosses the belt off. We took the old belt to the shop and had the new one cut to size, but it was 1" too short when I got it home!?!? It's a 5/16" belt (I think) sort of rectangular and a dark red. It sits a little twisted in the pulley and I wet it a little to make it stretch far enough. Thinking it might be a little too wet and stretching at will when I engage the motor, I'm letting it dry over night and trying again tomorrow. Time out is good.
On a really good note: I worked on 2 machines yesterday - including this one - and neither one bit me. In fact, neither one even tried to build my character up either!
[ATTACH=CONFIG]469351[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]469352[/ATTACH]
Right now, I'm looking for resources on servicing the motor it has (S-94161-R) and I'm finding nothing at all. I know very little about clutch motors, and am a little reluctant to get in there without some sort of guidance at all! Does anyone have any good resources? It's really grungy in there, but I don't want to take anything apart if it's anything like the main spring wind up clock I took apart when I was a teen....
I put a belt on it today, but I think it's too loose because as soon as I fire it up, it tosses the belt off. We took the old belt to the shop and had the new one cut to size, but it was 1" too short when I got it home!?!? It's a 5/16" belt (I think) sort of rectangular and a dark red. It sits a little twisted in the pulley and I wet it a little to make it stretch far enough. Thinking it might be a little too wet and stretching at will when I engage the motor, I'm letting it dry over night and trying again tomorrow. Time out is good.
On a really good note: I worked on 2 machines yesterday - including this one - and neither one bit me. In fact, neither one even tried to build my character up either!
03-30-2014, 02:01 AM
#242
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 15,506
I wonder if alcohol would stretch your belt better than water? I have not seen a repair manual for an industrial machine. When I bought a new one a few years ago, they gave me a schematic and told me that was all the manual they ever have for industrial machines. Now I can't find it when I need it. They are just sewing machines. For my 241 I have a manual that came with it - there are some pieces of info for repairs in it but it is pretty limited. I guess they figured if you were using an industrial machine you knew what you were doing whether it was repairs or just sewing on one.
03-30-2014, 06:14 PM
#243
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
It might have. This morning though, the belt had shrunk enough that it stays on. I probably will have to shorten it before long, but at least it doesn't fling off now. I'd be concerned about the alcohol drying the belt out. I still need to put some leather conditioner on it or some rosin.
There are a couple of things in the user's manual - setting the needlebar, setting the height of he dogs, timing the dogs, setting the tension spring. It's probably all I really need. I just got spoiled with the manuals I do have - 127, 201, 15, 401, etc. I did find the parts chart, 3 of them actually - all different for the machine. I think I'd really just like a manual for that motor. For instance, what does the dial on the front of it do? I suppose I could crank it and see if I can figure it out....
There are a couple of things in the user's manual - setting the needlebar, setting the height of he dogs, timing the dogs, setting the tension spring. It's probably all I really need. I just got spoiled with the manuals I do have - 127, 201, 15, 401, etc. I did find the parts chart, 3 of them actually - all different for the machine. I think I'd really just like a manual for that motor. For instance, what does the dial on the front of it do? I suppose I could crank it and see if I can figure it out....
03-30-2014, 06:43 PM
#244
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northern CA near Sacramento
Posts: 1,107
03-30-2014, 07:01 PM
#246
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
The stitch length, I got that I totally hear that!
03-30-2014, 07:09 PM
#247
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Centralia, WA, USA
Posts: 4,890
You've really got the old girl looking good. I don't think it'll take much more for her to start stitching for you.
I admit I haven't opened any clutch motors but I have worked on regular electric motors and they're not terribly complicated inside. Take it slow and take lots of pictures if you decide to open it up. I don't think you will need to worry about any real long wind-up springs popping out though there may be a spring setup to return the clutch to the "open" position when you're not sewing. I could be wrong but I picture a setup almost like the brakes on a car or bike but working just the opposite. Singer wouldn't have made it more complex than it needed to be.
Rodney
03-30-2014, 07:37 PM
#249
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Centralia, WA, USA
Posts: 4,890
and partly to finally face how out of control this obsession has actually gotten! I intend to try to make a legit business out of the whole thing by selling some of the no longer desirables at 2 quilt shows this summer. I may even donate an old 99 to one of them for a fundraiser drawing.
But instead, I was up til 2:00 wrestling with a National, (MW, Eldredge, take your pick) model J, or N-50 or whatever else it goes by. They are interesting creatures, but they have some weakspots. They are heavy, but not cast iron. They are made of some type of pot metal. And they have 2 connector rods going from bottom to top thru the pillar. They are made of die-cast, probably zinc pot metal also. They also don't have anything other than luck holding their bearing ends on their pivot points. All in all not the best.
So it wouldn't turn well at all by hand, despite the seller saying that " I plugged it in and it runs but since I don't sew that's all I can tell you". That should be enough of a heads up by now. It didn't want to turn easily past a couple points even after considerable oiling. What took me too long to realize was that the needle clamp was actually hitting the underside of the boss above it. Well this morning it seemed to turn much easier so I plugged it in and hit the pedal. big mistake...BANG! Broke the upper end off one of the connecting rods. I'm NOT going to buy another one in hopes that I'll find good parts. But I may buy another one and be more careful. I DO intend to make 2 better connecting rods for it and repair it. But it will have to wait til later.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]469322[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]469323[/ATTACH] To give a sense of proportion, and my hands are not that large, in case you've yet to see one up close.
Seller pic...[ATTACH=CONFIG]469324[/ATTACH] Supposed to take KK1221 needles, anyone know how long those are? I'll have to lower the needlebar, it will work with a 20x1 (sort of, in self destruct mode) as is. And it didn't come with a bobbin, but about anything other than a White will fit in the winder and bobbin case. The winder is interesting, in that is on the end of the motor shaft. If the motor self destructs, ummm....By the time I get through with this thing, I might as well paint it and make it obvious that it's not original. Anyone have guidance on what the bobbin is that's supposed to be in it? Lastly, it is sort of "Low Shank" on that foot, but some won't fit, as it's more squared off. Update, that little cardboard box of Greist marked "attachments" will fit fine. [ATTACH=CONFIG]469325[/ATTACH]
But instead, I was up til 2:00 wrestling with a National, (MW, Eldredge, take your pick) model J, or N-50 or whatever else it goes by. They are interesting creatures, but they have some weakspots. They are heavy, but not cast iron. They are made of some type of pot metal. And they have 2 connector rods going from bottom to top thru the pillar. They are made of die-cast, probably zinc pot metal also. They also don't have anything other than luck holding their bearing ends on their pivot points. All in all not the best.
So it wouldn't turn well at all by hand, despite the seller saying that " I plugged it in and it runs but since I don't sew that's all I can tell you". That should be enough of a heads up by now. It didn't want to turn easily past a couple points even after considerable oiling. What took me too long to realize was that the needle clamp was actually hitting the underside of the boss above it. Well this morning it seemed to turn much easier so I plugged it in and hit the pedal. big mistake...BANG! Broke the upper end off one of the connecting rods. I'm NOT going to buy another one in hopes that I'll find good parts. But I may buy another one and be more careful. I DO intend to make 2 better connecting rods for it and repair it. But it will have to wait til later.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]469322[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]469323[/ATTACH] To give a sense of proportion, and my hands are not that large, in case you've yet to see one up close.
Seller pic...[ATTACH=CONFIG]469324[/ATTACH] Supposed to take KK1221 needles, anyone know how long those are? I'll have to lower the needlebar, it will work with a 20x1 (sort of, in self destruct mode) as is. And it didn't come with a bobbin, but about anything other than a White will fit in the winder and bobbin case. The winder is interesting, in that is on the end of the motor shaft. If the motor self destructs, ummm....By the time I get through with this thing, I might as well paint it and make it obvious that it's not original. Anyone have guidance on what the bobbin is that's supposed to be in it? Lastly, it is sort of "Low Shank" on that foot, but some won't fit, as it's more squared off. Update, that little cardboard box of Greist marked "attachments" will fit fine. [ATTACH=CONFIG]469325[/ATTACH]
Rodney
03-30-2014, 08:07 PM
#250
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
I know, right? Obviously they didn't get the memo that it's important to establish who's boss and attack me right at the beginning! It's possible the 31 didn't want to though since I was responsible for making it stitch for the first time in 30 years. It just seems happy to be running.
Believe it or not, those are still the before shots. I haven't really any after, but all I've done so far is a preliminary cleaning, oiling and evaluation. I stitched out a sample using the handwheel only and it looks good. I've run the machine with the belt attached, I just haven't stitched it out using the motor yet. Baby steps.
This is work I did do - most of the old oil is removed. It does look like I still have a little work on the Take up Lever. The motor has seen no cleaning at all.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]469504[/ATTACH]
The regular motors I'm totally fine with. I think it's just that I'm not familiar with the way the clutch part works, but you're probably right. It shouldn't be complex. I don't know if I will get to the motor before my teaching trip in April, because I want to take the motor outside and blow out the dust and such before I start and it's just too icy and cruddy outside still. I just don't feel like getting crushed by an industrial table with or without the sewing machine in it if I slip. And I'm a natural klutz. By the time I get back, it should be riding weather so that should be good motor rehab weather too.
Ask and you shall receive.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]469505[/ATTACH]
At first I thought it was a bumper in case the motor swung forward and hit the irons, but then I realised 1. the motor is hard mounted with no "swing" ability, and 2. The "bumper" is metal and turns in and out.
It just seems happy to be running. This is work I did do - most of the old oil is removed. It does look like I still have a little work on the Take up Lever. The motor has seen no cleaning at all.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]469504[/ATTACH]
I admit I haven't opened any clutch motors but I have worked on regular electric motors and they're not terribly complicated inside. Take it slow and take lots of pictures if you decide to open it up. I don't think you will need to worry about any real long wind-up springs popping out though there may be a spring setup to return the clutch to the "open" position when you're not sewing. I could be wrong but I picture a setup almost like the brakes on a car or bike but working just the opposite. Singer wouldn't have made it more complex than it needed to be.
Rodney
Rodney
Ask and you shall receive.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]469505[/ATTACH]
At first I thought it was a bumper in case the motor swung forward and hit the irons, but then I realised 1. the motor is hard mounted with no "swing" ability, and 2. The "bumper" is metal and turns in and out.
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