The Machine That I Fiddled With Today
12-29-2014, 02:52 PM
#751
Power Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 15,506
define "working"? If the stabby thing goes up and down and it may even make a stitch is all that it takes to meet that, then yes, there are a few. None of them meet my standard of cleanliness or mechanical fitness though. I've even had machines given to me that aren't "terrible" but i wouldn't put my name on them (i.e. I don't want to be the person they come to to fix what's not right) without 5 - 10 hours of rehabilitation and cleaning. I learned just before christmas that some people have a completely different idea than i do of what's "acceptable housing" too.
*B*i*n*G*o*
12-29-2014, 09:05 PM
#752
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,333
I buy a lot of my machines in the $20-25 range...they all work eventually, lol. I hope I'm not one of those "lazy" people who ask a lot of questions. 
I do typically try and negotiate lower prices on machines that are $75 and up (I don't bother with the lower priced ones) but I am never pushy, I just ask if they have any negotiating room. But then I have never bought one of my machines from someone who has already gone through it. So yes I do "brag".... If that's what you call it....I call it excitement and fun of the hunt! But I am buying mine from people who found it in their basement when moving or like my two spool, the owner got it for free from someone who was going to throw it out. I paid them a heck of a lot more than free, lol! I promise not to discuss $ ever again in relation to obtained machines.
and I guess I didn't realize the questions being asked are begrudged and should be charged for?
Ok, ok, I will quit. I'm feeling entirely too sensitive! Lol!
I do typically try and negotiate lower prices on machines that are $75 and up (I don't bother with the lower priced ones) but I am never pushy, I just ask if they have any negotiating room. But then I have never bought one of my machines from someone who has already gone through it. So yes I do "brag".... If that's what you call it....I call it excitement and fun of the hunt! But I am buying mine from people who found it in their basement when moving or like my two spool, the owner got it for free from someone who was going to throw it out. I paid them a heck of a lot more than free, lol! I promise not to discuss $ ever again in relation to obtained machines.
and I guess I didn't realize the questions being asked are begrudged and should be charged for?
Ok, ok, I will quit. I'm feeling entirely too sensitive! Lol!
Last edited by Cogito; 12-29-2014 at 09:08 PM.
12-29-2014, 10:58 PM
#753
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
LOL! Cogito No. The ones I have trouble with are the ones who refuse to help themselves. It looks a lot like you do the research - and some of us are your research sources, which is fine - and actually learn with each machine. I get frustrated with the ones who just want cheap machines from me then want me to tell them how to fix them.
Worse still is the people who want my serviced fully rehabilitated machines for $25. My time is worth more than if I worked at McDonalds. What I chose to give freely - ie the QB or a blog I'm not allowed to mention - is my choice. Someone who tells me in so many words that my time isn't worth anything? Completely different.
One that comes to mind is a friend of a friend who keeps buying parts through our mutual friend and is making up names for things, wants to know how to fix things and won't even provide a photo of the machine - this is a Singer, but one of the ones I don't get a lot of info fro the serial number, i.e. is not in the ISMACs comprehensive list. My friend just says why don't you take the machine to her and the reply? "But then she'll charge me to do the work!" He sighs and says "But it will work when she's done and you can just sew!" I sigh and wonder if I've "helped" myself out of work.
There's nothing wrong with negotiating for a better price. If you can support it with good reasoning, I may even meet you part way. I've "offered" on several machines over the years and in probably 90% of the cases have gotten a little off as a result. I go in knowing the value of the machine both in the market and to me and exchange my "discount" for information if they want it - i.e they have another machine they're trying to sell, they sew and have trouble with their machine, etc.
In most cases, the "offers" I get are via email before they arrive to see the machine and usually half or less of the asking price. Those are insulting. They'll never get the machine at that point. I'd rather bury it in the backyard. People who show up to try one of my machines typically leave paying asking because I can justify my prices. When they see that I'm selling a machine usually for less than the price of a service and it looks and sounds and sew like it does... they usually hand over the cash and thank me.
I guess that's the other part of it. If a person is too lazy to even come to see a machine before low balling me AND says my time isn't worth anything... that's when I start boiling and the smoke detector goes off.
Worse still is the people who want my serviced fully rehabilitated machines for $25. My time is worth more than if I worked at McDonalds. What I chose to give freely - ie the QB or a blog I'm not allowed to mention - is my choice. Someone who tells me in so many words that my time isn't worth anything? Completely different.
One that comes to mind is a friend of a friend who keeps buying parts through our mutual friend and is making up names for things, wants to know how to fix things and won't even provide a photo of the machine - this is a Singer, but one of the ones I don't get a lot of info fro the serial number, i.e. is not in the ISMACs comprehensive list. My friend just says why don't you take the machine to her and the reply? "But then she'll charge me to do the work!" He sighs and says "But it will work when she's done and you can just sew!" I sigh and wonder if I've "helped" myself out of work.
There's nothing wrong with negotiating for a better price. If you can support it with good reasoning, I may even meet you part way. I've "offered" on several machines over the years and in probably 90% of the cases have gotten a little off as a result. I go in knowing the value of the machine both in the market and to me and exchange my "discount" for information if they want it - i.e they have another machine they're trying to sell, they sew and have trouble with their machine, etc.
In most cases, the "offers" I get are via email before they arrive to see the machine and usually half or less of the asking price. Those are insulting. They'll never get the machine at that point. I'd rather bury it in the backyard. People who show up to try one of my machines typically leave paying asking because I can justify my prices. When they see that I'm selling a machine usually for less than the price of a service and it looks and sounds and sew like it does... they usually hand over the cash and thank me.
I guess that's the other part of it. If a person is too lazy to even come to see a machine before low balling me AND says my time isn't worth anything... that's when I start boiling and the smoke detector goes off.
12-29-2014, 11:43 PM
#754
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
OK, I fiddled with the motor for my 31-15.
First, GROSS!!! The motor was supposed to go outside and be blown out this summer but first the roof intervened then DH was in a motorcycle accident. I'm just now catching up on the summer to do list as a result. Best I can tell, there's about 65 years of dust and grunge in there and someone at some point managed to over grease the motor and there's dark sticky brown goo everywhere inside. DH emptied an entire can of electrical contact cleaner in there and brought it back in with an apology that it wasn't near clean. Mmmm,.. goo and grunge.
Second, I did something I don't usually do. I didn't inspect this motor when it first came home. Usually all electrical and the motors are inspected before they go into use. It was a busy spring and the summer was a mess and I must have forgotten. The external wiring looked so good, the internals should be good too right? Uh,... no.
Third, I have no idea why people care so little about electricity that they're willing to make frankly dangerous repairs! Opening up the motor to look at the wiring and find the squeak that's been making me nuts - it's a pitch and a volume that makes me ill to hear it so I can't currently use the machine or be in the room if it's being used - I found a real surprise. All of the wires for the light - the 2 from the motor and the 2 from the light are joined at the same area as the rest of the wiring but only they have what looks like medical tape on them? Taking the tape off, it's a wonder this machine didn't throw a breaker or otherwise cause a commotion! All 4 wires were shorted together under the worst tape job I've ever seen. On top of this, almost all of the rest of the wires were crunchy and brittle. I spent the night rewiring from the coils forward and tomorrow I'm going to get the metal shielded wire and wire appropriate for the light and finish completely replacing all of the wiring. One gianormous can of worms I hadn't been thinking of opening but oh well.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]504114[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]504115[/ATTACH]
Fourth, The light on this machine has always been a little weird. The first clue I should have had that there was the wiring problem that I found above is the 15 bulbs in the drawer. The light on a 31-15 is wired directly to the motor - yuck - but if I read right, it's also half the voltage of the motor, connected to only one phase(? I can't find the post I read it in anymore) - so it's not an easy rewire to connect it to regular mains or to the switch instead. That had been my hope.
Fifth, I'm also on the lookout tomorrow for one very long bolt that DH broke when reassembling the part of the motor he'd taken apart - it's one of the 4 that hold the motor casings together. We have a rule, if one of us helps take something apart, that person has to be there to give input or to put it back together when the time comes. It's just no fun to fumble my way through putting something back together I've not seen come apart. Tonight, I should have sent him to bed 5 minutes earlier than I did. :P
So, one question I did have about this: To take the motor off and service it properly, one has to take the light apart to route the wiring through the table. In the process of this, DH lost a set screw (rookie mistake - standing while removing a set screw that could have been loosened only.) To avoid this, I was thinking of a male and female spade connector for both of the light wires, if they will fit in that compartment with the rest of the wiring. Then when it's time to service, I can just disconnect them there, rather than taking the light apart again or twisting and untwisting the wiring at the motor. Is there any reason not to do this?
First, GROSS!!! The motor was supposed to go outside and be blown out this summer but first the roof intervened then DH was in a motorcycle accident. I'm just now catching up on the summer to do list as a result. Best I can tell, there's about 65 years of dust and grunge in there and someone at some point managed to over grease the motor and there's dark sticky brown goo everywhere inside. DH emptied an entire can of electrical contact cleaner in there and brought it back in with an apology that it wasn't near clean. Mmmm,.. goo and grunge.
Second, I did something I don't usually do. I didn't inspect this motor when it first came home. Usually all electrical and the motors are inspected before they go into use. It was a busy spring and the summer was a mess and I must have forgotten. The external wiring looked so good, the internals should be good too right? Uh,... no.
Third, I have no idea why people care so little about electricity that they're willing to make frankly dangerous repairs! Opening up the motor to look at the wiring and find the squeak that's been making me nuts - it's a pitch and a volume that makes me ill to hear it so I can't currently use the machine or be in the room if it's being used - I found a real surprise. All of the wires for the light - the 2 from the motor and the 2 from the light are joined at the same area as the rest of the wiring but only they have what looks like medical tape on them? Taking the tape off, it's a wonder this machine didn't throw a breaker or otherwise cause a commotion! All 4 wires were shorted together under the worst tape job I've ever seen. On top of this, almost all of the rest of the wires were crunchy and brittle. I spent the night rewiring from the coils forward and tomorrow I'm going to get the metal shielded wire and wire appropriate for the light and finish completely replacing all of the wiring. One gianormous can of worms I hadn't been thinking of opening but oh well.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]504114[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]504115[/ATTACH]
Fourth, The light on this machine has always been a little weird. The first clue I should have had that there was the wiring problem that I found above is the 15 bulbs in the drawer. The light on a 31-15 is wired directly to the motor - yuck - but if I read right, it's also half the voltage of the motor, connected to only one phase(? I can't find the post I read it in anymore) - so it's not an easy rewire to connect it to regular mains or to the switch instead. That had been my hope.
Fifth, I'm also on the lookout tomorrow for one very long bolt that DH broke when reassembling the part of the motor he'd taken apart - it's one of the 4 that hold the motor casings together. We have a rule, if one of us helps take something apart, that person has to be there to give input or to put it back together when the time comes. It's just no fun to fumble my way through putting something back together I've not seen come apart. Tonight, I should have sent him to bed 5 minutes earlier than I did. :P
So, one question I did have about this: To take the motor off and service it properly, one has to take the light apart to route the wiring through the table. In the process of this, DH lost a set screw (rookie mistake - standing while removing a set screw that could have been loosened only.) To avoid this, I was thinking of a male and female spade connector for both of the light wires, if they will fit in that compartment with the rest of the wiring. Then when it's time to service, I can just disconnect them there, rather than taking the light apart again or twisting and untwisting the wiring at the motor. Is there any reason not to do this?
12-30-2014, 03:30 AM
#755
Power Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 15,506
LOL! Cogito No. The ones I have trouble with are the ones who refuse to help themselves. It looks a lot like you do the research - and some of us are your research sources, which is fine - and actually learn with each machine. I get frustrated with the ones who just want cheap machines from me then want me to tell them how to fix them.
Worse still is the people who want my serviced fully rehabilitated machines for $25. My time is worth more than if I worked at McDonalds. What I chose to give freely - ie the QB or a blog I'm not allowed to mention - is my choice. Someone who tells me in so many words that my time isn't worth anything? Completely different.
One that comes to mind is a friend of a friend who keeps buying parts through our mutual friend and is making up names for things, wants to know how to fix things and won't even provide a photo of the machine - this is a Singer, but one of the ones I don't get a lot of info fro the serial number, i.e. is not in the ISMACs comprehensive list. My friend just says why don't you take the machine to her and the reply? "But then she'll charge me to do the work!" He sighs and says "But it will work when she's done and you can just sew!" I sigh and wonder if I've "helped" myself out of work.
There's nothing wrong with negotiating for a better price. If you can support it with good reasoning, I may even meet you part way. I've "offered" on several machines over the years and in probably 90% of the cases have gotten a little off as a result. I go in knowing the value of the machine both in the market and to me and exchange my "discount" for information if they want it - i.e they have another machine they're trying to sell, they sew and have trouble with their machine, etc.
In most cases, the "offers" I get are via email before they arrive to see the machine and usually half or less of the asking price. Those are insulting. They'll never get the machine at that point. I'd rather bury it in the backyard. People who show up to try one of my machines typically leave paying asking because I can justify my prices. When they see that I'm selling a machine usually for less than the price of a service and it looks and sounds and sew like it does... they usually hand over the cash and thank me.
I guess that's the other part of it. If a person is too lazy to even come to see a machine before low balling me AND says my time isn't worth anything... that's when I start boiling and the smoke detector goes off.
Worse still is the people who want my serviced fully rehabilitated machines for $25. My time is worth more than if I worked at McDonalds. What I chose to give freely - ie the QB or a blog I'm not allowed to mention - is my choice. Someone who tells me in so many words that my time isn't worth anything? Completely different.
One that comes to mind is a friend of a friend who keeps buying parts through our mutual friend and is making up names for things, wants to know how to fix things and won't even provide a photo of the machine - this is a Singer, but one of the ones I don't get a lot of info fro the serial number, i.e. is not in the ISMACs comprehensive list. My friend just says why don't you take the machine to her and the reply? "But then she'll charge me to do the work!" He sighs and says "But it will work when she's done and you can just sew!" I sigh and wonder if I've "helped" myself out of work.
There's nothing wrong with negotiating for a better price. If you can support it with good reasoning, I may even meet you part way. I've "offered" on several machines over the years and in probably 90% of the cases have gotten a little off as a result. I go in knowing the value of the machine both in the market and to me and exchange my "discount" for information if they want it - i.e they have another machine they're trying to sell, they sew and have trouble with their machine, etc.
In most cases, the "offers" I get are via email before they arrive to see the machine and usually half or less of the asking price. Those are insulting. They'll never get the machine at that point. I'd rather bury it in the backyard. People who show up to try one of my machines typically leave paying asking because I can justify my prices. When they see that I'm selling a machine usually for less than the price of a service and it looks and sounds and sew like it does... they usually hand over the cash and thank me.
I guess that's the other part of it. If a person is too lazy to even come to see a machine before low balling me AND says my time isn't worth anything... that's when I start boiling and the smoke detector goes off.
12-30-2014, 04:17 AM
#756
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,333
?.. then DH was in a motorcycle accident.
The external wiring looked so good, the internals should be good too right? Uh,... no.
Third, I have no idea why people care so little about electricity that they're willing to make frankly dangerous repairs! Opening up the motor to look at the wiring and find the squeak that's been making me nuts - it's a pitch and a volume that makes me ill to hear it so I can't currently use the machine or be in the room if it's being used - I found a real surprise. All of the wires for the light - the 2 from the motor and the 2 from the light are joined at the same area as the rest of the wiring but only they have what looks like medical tape on them? Taking the tape off, it's a wonder this machine didn't throw a breaker or otherwise cause a commotion! All 4 wires were shorted together under the worst tape job I've ever seen. On top of this, almost all of the rest of the wires were crunchy and brittle. I spent the night rewiring from the coils forward and tomorrow I'm going to get the metal shielded wire and wire appropriate for the light and finish completely replacing all of the wiring. One gianormous can of worms I hadn't been thinking of opening
The external wiring looked so good, the internals should be good too right? Uh,... no.
Third, I have no idea why people care so little about electricity that they're willing to make frankly dangerous repairs! Opening up the motor to look at the wiring and find the squeak that's been making me nuts - it's a pitch and a volume that makes me ill to hear it so I can't currently use the machine or be in the room if it's being used - I found a real surprise. All of the wires for the light - the 2 from the motor and the 2 from the light are joined at the same area as the rest of the wiring but only they have what looks like medical tape on them? Taking the tape off, it's a wonder this machine didn't throw a breaker or otherwise cause a commotion! All 4 wires were shorted together under the worst tape job I've ever seen. On top of this, almost all of the rest of the wires were crunchy and brittle. I spent the night rewiring from the coils forward and tomorrow I'm going to get the metal shielded wire and wire appropriate for the light and finish completely replacing all of the wiring. One gianormous can of worms I hadn't been thinking of opening
OMG Tammi! I hope there was no serious injury?! That is my biggest fear with my DH. He insist on driving the 30 miles to work on his Harley during the optimum deer crossing time of day! To illustrate, his truck is less than a year old and he has hit deer twice with it (it is currently in truck hospital for last weeks) both doing over 4G of damage. So relieved when weather makes him drive the truck instead of bike! So your DH and his bike are ok?
Yikes! This is a wake up call to me....my one WEAK link is wanting to mess with the electrical so I try to avoid it at all costs. It's not really that I'm "afraid" to tackle it...it's the fear that I will muck it up! So I tend to tell myself that it looks just fine and no worries. Lol, guess I better change that tune! That must be why I have so many treadles.
Last edited by Cogito; 12-30-2014 at 04:20 AM.
12-30-2014, 05:57 AM
#757
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,333
Well after some tea. Lol.
12-30-2014, 07:06 AM
#758
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Mendocino County CA
Posts: 1,976
Cogito, I can "feel" what you're feeling. I also ask questions, but I do lots and lots of research! I buy machines in the worst of conditions and enjoy the battle to get them up and running. I really should be more careful in the future when I post my happy finds for 5 or 10 dollars and make sure I also share they were cat-peed on, missing cords with a frozen needle bar! I am ok for that price taking risks. I see them as a challenge with potential to be awesum but it doesn't always work out that way! Sometimes it's just a learning situation and lots of frustration!
I agree when people start bargaining my prices way down before they even see a machine I am insulted. I'm generally ok with a little bargaining but I price my machines to sell quickly and if you can't afford it, someone else is waiting that can.
I agree when people start bargaining my prices way down before they even see a machine I am insulted. I'm generally ok with a little bargaining but I price my machines to sell quickly and if you can't afford it, someone else is waiting that can.
12-30-2014, 03:21 PM
#759
Power Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 15,506
Cogito, I can "feel" what you're feeling. I also ask questions, but I do lots and lots of research! I buy machines in the worst of conditions and enjoy the battle to get them up and running. I really should be more careful in the future when I post my happy finds for 5 or 10 dollars and make sure I also share they were cat-peed on, missing cords with a frozen needle bar! I am ok for that price taking risks. I see them as a challenge with potential to be awesum but it doesn't always work out that way! Sometimes it's just a learning situation and lots of frustration!
I agree when people start bargaining my prices way down before they even see a machine I am insulted. I'm generally ok with a little bargaining but I price my machines to sell quickly and if you can't afford it, someone else is waiting that can.
I agree when people start bargaining my prices way down before they even see a machine I am insulted. I'm generally ok with a little bargaining but I price my machines to sell quickly and if you can't afford it, someone else is waiting that can.
12-30-2014, 05:00 PM
#760
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Centralia, WA, USA
Posts: 4,890
I buy cheap machines. I also know I'm going to have a significant amount of time in them to get them cleaned up and working the way they should. Many times they're fine mechanically but there's always a couple hours of fiddling and cleaning before I'm happy. Low buying price and bargain are two entirely different things. Many times a person will be happier in the long run and money ahead by buying a a complete working machine in good cosmetic condition as compared to the same machine in poor condition. Quite frankly I have far more time than money. I also see the cleaning and fixing as part of the fun. The downside is I don't own any of the showroom perfect early machines that I covet. You get what you pay for. I do ask questions here but I usually do the reading and watching youtube videos first.
There's always a little give and take. People who ask questions about how to fix things don't offend me. At least they're showing some sort of active interest in the machine itself.
My pet peeve is the one hit wonders who sign in once and just want to know what to sell Grandma's machine for. I've pretty much given up responding to those questions.
Rodney
There's always a little give and take. People who ask questions about how to fix things don't offend me. At least they're showing some sort of active interest in the machine itself.
My pet peeve is the one hit wonders who sign in once and just want to know what to sell Grandma's machine for. I've pretty much given up responding to those questions.
Rodney
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