J Miller

The spring is internal? That is a new one on me. Never seen one in the flesh or in a pic up till now. To be honest I think I'd hunt up a more normal top tension from one of the machine models you listed.
As for what fits it, you'd know more by removing that one from the machine and checking it against pics of replacements.

Joe

KenmoreGal2

I am amazed at how much has changed in one day! I did buy the 117.740. It's basically the same machine as my 117.841 but with some cosmetic changes. Still made by Gritzner in W. Germany. It cost $25 including a cabinet with spring assist lift and knee pedal. The seller said it was his MIL's machine and had not been used in 20 years. I cleaned it up, gave it a good oiling and tried it out. It works really nicely. So now I've changed my plan completely!

So far my 841 is maintaining good tension. Fingers crossed. If that should change, I'm going to put the tension assembly from my donor 841 into that machine. I'm no longer going to attempt to use my donor 841 for FMQ, I'm going to use the new 740 for that now. I've done some test sandwiches and it does a good job.

As for the spring being internal Joe - IDK!! I haven't seen many machines so I don't know if this is unusual. But yes, according to the service manual, that thing that I circled is called the take up spring. And it is inside.

Thank you to everyone who helped me over the past two days. Such nice people!!

I'll post some pics of my new machine tomorrow after I clean up the cabinet.

J Miller

KenmoreGal,

My Kenmore manufacturing chart shows the 117 series of machines being made by WHITE Sewing Machine Co.
The Gritzner Kaiser uses a 516 prefix.

If your's is a 117 it's a White made machine.

Here's the chart I have:

117- White Sewing Machines (most USA, some models made in W. Germany)
119- currently unknown
120-New Process Gear (USA, a div. of Chrysler)
516-Gritzner Kaiser (West Germany)
158-Jaguar/Maruzen (mostly Japan, some Taiwan)
148-Soryu (Japan)
340-Necchi (Italy)
385-Janome (Taiwan) (Currently)

Joe

ArchaicArcane

I think this is why we were all trying to tell her to pull up past it to go around that hooked part. I've had a couple of internal take up springs, but I can't recall if they looked tacked to the inside of the tensioner like this one does. The ones I've worked on moved easily and dealt well with tension, if a little noisy.

Sarabela

There have been times that I've had trouble with tension and nesting on the back and i try everything I can think of and can't get it right. I get frustrated and stay away for a week then when I come back to the machine with my nerves rested it will magically sew just fine. Drives me crazy!

KenmoreGal2

Just tested the machine again. It's holding tension so far. Fingers crossed.

Cari-in-Oly

Joe, here's where some confusion comes in. Yes, the 117s are White machines, but SOME of the Whites were built by GK. I've seen this discussed many times on other groups.

Cari

ArchaicArcane

KenmoreGal2,... looking at the photos you posted in post 22... it looks to me like the diagram shows the thread as being on the top side of that wire spring and your photo shows it under. Is this an optical illusion?

KenmoreGal2

Tammi,

That picture gave me pause too. It sure looks like the thread is on top of the wire spring. But I can't find any way to get it that way in real life.

Also - wouldn't the written directions make some mention of pulling the thread or something to make it latch under the wire spring? (From post 26 in this thread - "Pass thread from right to left under tension mechanism. Place thread either in front or in back of the center tension disc. Pull thread against tension spring and thread from right to left through hole in take up lever".)

Also - could I possibly thread the machine wrong for 9 months and use the machine daily with great success? Could that even happen?

So far it's still holding it's tension and sewing great again. I used it for a couple of hours yesterday.

DH thinks somehow when my tension initially got off, I tightened it and then forgot I had tightened it and loosened it again. He thinks perhaps the tension is now where it always was in other words. I guess anything is possible but I'm still doubtful of this theory.

I never really paid attention to where the dial was with respect to the series of lines on the shank. I just looked at the numbers. Now I'm hyper vigilant of the lines on the shank. I'll update this thread periodically.

BTW - the 740 I just purchased threads the same way and also runs fine threaded that way. So IDK. But I do know exactly what you all mean about having the thread engage with the wire. I have other machines that work like that.

ArchaicArcane

As you read more manuals, I think you'll find that they're terribly worded and often don't describe what they need to.

Additionally, the photos don't always say what the text does and in a lot of cases aren't clear enough to even see what they're talking about. I remember one manual - I think it was a Kenmore machine in fact, a 158 series, showed where to oil and it was so marked up with arrows you couldn't tell what the heck they meant. Pfaff serger manuals are another one. The threading diagrams in the manuals I've looked at are unintelligible.

If the machine is working right and not self-adjusting anymore, I would say leave it and revisit any of this another day if it does it again. Perhaps your husband is right.

I don't see how it could have been threaded wrong for 9 months, I only knew something about that picture had bothered me and I'd finally put my finger on it. I would think you'd have a "loop" of thread by the tensioner when the take up lever is down, but if it's not affecting tension, I guess it's nothing to worry about.