J Miller

Yes I do have one that smokes. A real pretty blue clone. I don't know exactly what is smoking inside the motor. I've used q-tips and denatured alcohol to clean the commutator and brushes, (without disassembling the motor - you can access them from out side) and yet it continues to blow a puff of smoke as you start sewing.

I have not yet taken the motor apart as it runs so good. I suspect it has been over oiled at some point and the armature has become oil saturated near the brushes.
I think that in due time it will burn off all the oil and quit smoking. I just need to use it enough to do that.
I seriously doubt there is any fire hazard to it at all.

Joe

ArchaicArcane

I was thinking about the nursing statement this morning more. Oxygen is WAY more flammable than PJ ever will be. Honestly, I think we shouldn't be using pure Oxygen near PJ! Yes, a little flippant as well.

But the fact remains, the PJ isn't going to introduce the spark, and the Oxygen will create the fireball first.

I'm really glad I could help. Your treadle irons would probably love the Tri Flow Lube, if we could find it in Canada. An alternative for the irons may be "SuperLube" which is a synthetic grease with PTFE (Teflon) added as well. The Singer Lube is only strictly necessary in the motor, everywhere else you're good with the other stuff.

I don't think my supplier is making stories up. Their supplier might be, but they, as in both companies must be aware that the shipment is coming back if it turns out not to be true. My supplier is very good about taking things back, or crediting me if the item is not as described. It helps that my rep and I discuss computers as only 2 geeks can. The last shipment I got, in November, was the right stuff. The 180 tubes I have access to are part of the same shipment from their supplier. Their supplier says that it's not reformulated, so I will order a "box" of the new as well, and see what it looks and feels like.

I have a sneaking suspicion that there's more than one manufacturer of the stuff, and at least one is not staying true to the original formula. The blue and yellow package is supposedly "old" packaging, but I've seen it on at least one site as the new packaging. I also suspect it might not be "Singer" who's manufacturing it, more that it's licensed to someone.

It was my assumption that they were inferring that it was freezing. I wonder if it's a separation issue or something else. It's possible they're getting it from somewhere that it freezes in transit. Perhaps there's too much water in the formulation, maybe it "Gels" and changes when it freezes / gets cold, etc. I don't know. I'm not a chemist. Heck, I failed chemistry in Grade 11.

The famed and often recommended NM has things on her page about PJ. Perhaps that's where you read it. The more I thought about it, the more I thought, uhhh...no, but I thought it was worth putting it out there or discussion

Probably not. Things coated in grease tend to have a harder time lighting Out of curiosity, what color are the sparks on the commutator? White/blue or something else?

Thinking (still more) on this topic, I have a 2 stroke dirtbike. (oil and fuel mixed together in the gas tank for the uninitiated - not you Joe. )

We bought it new in 2004. It's never started right until this year. I've fought with it for 9 years, and was close to giving up riding. I had the air mixture screw out 4 full turns (providing it way more air than it should need to run) just to get it to start. It was rejetted for planet earth (previously I think it may have been fit for Pluto or possibly Mercury.), the air filter spotlessly clean, etc. Besides not starting there's always a trail of sludge that comes out the tail pipe. DH likes to have the same fuel in both bikes for ease of use. His is a different brand though. But a dirt bike is a dirt bike, right? Not with fuel mixtures. Mine gets extremely upset when the fuel has too much oil in the fuel mixture. It simply won't light and I kick and kick and kick and... well you know. Then I need a nap before I can ride down the trail. We lowered the amount of oil in the gas and you know what? It starts first good kick, or second wimpy kick. Add to that, there's no grease slick you can use to track me through the bush anymore.

So. Speaking to the volatility of different petroleum products.... oil and grease may help prevent fires.... it sure did in my bike. LOL! No, ... that's not going to be my official position on this.

mlmack

Petroleum jelly is not use as a lubricant inside of the motor, where all of the electrical magic takes place, but rather outside of the motor, to lubricate each end of the shaft that runs through the center of the motor.

I guess it is possible that some seals could fail, thereby allowing some petroleum jelly into the motor body, but at that point, your problems go beyond what type of lubricant was used.

mom-6

So for clarification purposes I'm going to ask if the couple of squirts of triflow lube I put in the ends of my FW motor are a problem? It seemed to run better after I did it (first time I'd found any since I bought the machine a few years ago). I had located oil early on and do that fairly often - every couple months most of the time. This time I had the lube and used it as well.
I guess I'm not mechanically savey enough to understand why the Triflow lube isn't great for the motor since it seemed to help. And I'm another that chemistry wasn't my best subject. Lol!

ArchaicArcane

I'm assuming you put it in the grease tubes here.
Personally, I would remove it, only because (and I think that this was discussed earlier in the thread) the melting point of the synthetic grease that TriFlow Lube is uh... well, it doesn't. (Just looked it up, it's advertised as a "non melting" lube)
PJ and Singer lube both melt at 115 degrees. We -want- the lube to melt a little, right where it's making contact with the heat from the bearing. This is what provides the lubrication. It's like a candle stick. A candle stick won't flow into anything in its normal state. Add heat and it's all over the place if you don't contain it. This is the main reason for the grease tubes not having oil in them, but instead a grease that melts just a little and flows into where we want it, when we want it.

Practical chemistry makes a lot more sense to me than memorizing the periodic table. We use practical chemistry all the time in our homes though - starting our cars, cooking dinner, baking especially, all sorts of ways, and we don't have to know about the elements and how molecules join. Only that vinegar and baking soda isn't likely to keep the kitchen clean, etc.

J Miller

Tammi,

I think the sparks from the commutator are mostly white with some red in them. Not sure though .... I've got a couple of videos of it, wait right here and I'll go watch a video. Maybe I can see something.

Oh well, now I can't find the stupid things. I'll keep looking.

Joe

ArchaicArcane

Red and orange is usually a "dirty" low temperature type of spark, isn't it? Probably some residue of some sort.

J Miller

OK, I've been meaning to do this for a while but things got in the way.

Here is a pic of the two Singer greases.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]433448[/ATTACH]

On the left is the white grease that at one time Sew-Classic had a notice on. The notice said the white grease was for gears, not motors. If you will look close at the text on the tube you'll see where it says: "Pure non-flowing compound".
This tells me that no matter what the distributors or suppliers or even Singer says, that this white grease is not for the motors.

On the right is the normal Singer Motor Lube we need for our motors. This tube has brown grease in it. Others I have come with a lighter color. Different lots is my theory. It is totally different grease than that in the blue tube.

Also if you'll notice the blue tube is shorter than the red tube, yet both are labeled as containing 1/2 fluid ounce. This tells me the grease in the blue tube is heavier than that in the red tube. Another clue that it is not suitable for the motors.

Joe

mlmack

Just to add to the confusion, I have an old lead tube of Singer Motor Lubricant, and here is what it says on the back of the tube:

The Lubricant Par Excellence
For High Speed Electrical Machinery

A Pure Non-Flowing Compound
Retaining Its Consistency and Possessing
High Lubricating Qualities

J Miller

I have some of those old metal tubes too. I'll see if I can unroll one and see what it says. I wonder if there is more than one kind even back then?

Joe