Stuck Singer 201
#22
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Tammi; an entire year and still stuck has to be a record, and I hope annf doesn't have to compete with yours ;- )
What type of oils have you used? As I mentioned; some times just switching to something different helps. The explanation mightbe as the first oil gets to do it's work and when something else get't to take over, working slightly differently, things happen. I hope your Gritzner loosens up after next round of oil and wiggeling. In my case machines have unstuck by soaking in oil over night; in one case it took me four days to get a machine running smoothly, repeated applications of oil and turning the hand wheel did the job. It was just dried up oil and grime causing the sluggishness, hard to pin it down to any specific part.
I like Miriam's advice on tilting the machne over, side ways, even up side down. Those horizontal rods under the base can be very hard to get oil into, I'm not even sure there's oil spots officially in the manual, but I have studied them and it looks like there's one metal piece running through an outer one; in other words metal moving against metal, not a solid piece made in one casting. Make sure the oil seeps into the oil points, and in cases like these I oil generously, deliberate over oiling. I like the wooden case with kitchen paper or old rags before I start.
What type of oils have you used? As I mentioned; some times just switching to something different helps. The explanation mightbe as the first oil gets to do it's work and when something else get't to take over, working slightly differently, things happen. I hope your Gritzner loosens up after next round of oil and wiggeling. In my case machines have unstuck by soaking in oil over night; in one case it took me four days to get a machine running smoothly, repeated applications of oil and turning the hand wheel did the job. It was just dried up oil and grime causing the sluggishness, hard to pin it down to any specific part.
I like Miriam's advice on tilting the machne over, side ways, even up side down. Those horizontal rods under the base can be very hard to get oil into, I'm not even sure there's oil spots officially in the manual, but I have studied them and it looks like there's one metal piece running through an outer one; in other words metal moving against metal, not a solid piece made in one casting. Make sure the oil seeps into the oil points, and in cases like these I oil generously, deliberate over oiling. I like the wooden case with kitchen paper or old rags before I start.
We've tried tri-flow, fluid film, PB Blaster, SeaFoam's Deep Creep, WD-40 (no decals or finish to worry about), rubber mallet, pleading, begging, bargaining, some really bad language...
She's been laid on her back, tipped onside, hung like a bat...
I found this interesting too:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=59511 A comparison of the torque require to break a nut/bolt loose with several different penetrating oils.
#23
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It is very hard to tell exactly what what point a machine will be stuck. It is best to generically oil every single movable friction point. Tammi I believe out of desperation I used break cleaner or xylene to get one unstuck. Those have to be used out doors nowhere near flame. spray some in a can - plastic will go poof - then brush on with a natural art brush. Do not leave metal over night with out re-oiling anything that stuff touches.
The gold you see on that needle bar is more likely dried on old oil not rust. Usually rust doesn't find its way into a joint because there is a protective coating of oil. If you try to force gummed up oiled parts to move you may have so many gummed up parts in other places that are being forced that something will move but it may not be what you expect or desire. You can tell the difference between rust and dried on oil by scraping on it just a little. Rust will be rough. Dried up Oil will feel gummy or oily of course. Oil will dissolve with solvent. Rust will not dissolve with oil or a solvent. It takes an acid like vinegar to dissolve the rust. If an acid is left on a rusted part the part will continue to rust even over night rust will grow. If someone put some kind of stuff to clean off rust down your needle bar then unless it had good coating of oil, you will have rust somewhere and the needle bar will have to come out and be cleaned of rust as will the sleeve it rides in. If you take out the needle bar you will need to reset it and time it. If you pry on the needle bar you could bend the needle bar. If you pry on the needle bar you will very likely have to retime it. I'm sure there is an Igor reading this. Note to Igor, use oil to do your work as much as possible. Use gentle taps and then big force as a last resort.
The gold you see on that needle bar is more likely dried on old oil not rust. Usually rust doesn't find its way into a joint because there is a protective coating of oil. If you try to force gummed up oiled parts to move you may have so many gummed up parts in other places that are being forced that something will move but it may not be what you expect or desire. You can tell the difference between rust and dried on oil by scraping on it just a little. Rust will be rough. Dried up Oil will feel gummy or oily of course. Oil will dissolve with solvent. Rust will not dissolve with oil or a solvent. It takes an acid like vinegar to dissolve the rust. If an acid is left on a rusted part the part will continue to rust even over night rust will grow. If someone put some kind of stuff to clean off rust down your needle bar then unless it had good coating of oil, you will have rust somewhere and the needle bar will have to come out and be cleaned of rust as will the sleeve it rides in. If you take out the needle bar you will need to reset it and time it. If you pry on the needle bar you could bend the needle bar. If you pry on the needle bar you will very likely have to retime it. I'm sure there is an Igor reading this. Note to Igor, use oil to do your work as much as possible. Use gentle taps and then big force as a last resort.
#24
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Tammi, more often than not I see stuck hand wheels on a rocketeer. There is nothing to grip. I've also seen a few where Igor hit it with a hammer and made notches all over the place. I never have the strength to get those off. After I've tried I get DH to do it... He gets a kick out of doing it. One time he tried to free one up for me but I hadn't oiled it up yet and he broke something under the bobbin area. Boy did he have egg on his face.
#25
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
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The reason to use heat is to expand the parts so penetrating oil can get inside to do it's job. Sometimes a hair dryer is not enough.
Miriam gave me a Wizard brand sewing machine that had been exposed to rain and the needle bar end was seized solid.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]541319[/ATTACH]
NOTHING I could do, nothing I soaked it in, would work to loosen up the needle bar. Everything else freed up.
Finally realizing that the machine was junk as it sat and good for nothing but parts, and that I had nothing to loose, I disconnected the clamp connecting the needle bar to the crank and broke out the propane torch. Then using the direct heat of the flame tip I applied heat to the cast iron housing so it would expand, and soaked it with ATF. After a while of that I began to get rusty oil running down the needle bar under the seized area.
Heat it, (not to the point of melting anything or discoloring the metal, just hot) soaking it, then repeating a few times began to get results. Then I put a screwdriver against the base and pried up against the bottom of the needle bar. Eventually it moved. Once I had the needle bar up I cleaned the rust off of the bar and tapped it down. Cleaned more rust off of it.
That worked. After reassembling it I put the Wizard and all it's pieces in a box about 2 1/2 years ago due to other projects and haven't finished it yet. But just before the move I checked it and the machine is so free it spins easily. It is fixable now.
This was admittedly a worst case scenario, but for your 201 I think you need to clean off all the stuff you've used and get some real heat to the casting around the needle bar so the Tri-Flow or ATF or Kroil or what ever you use can actually get between the needle bar and the cast iron housing. Rust flakes can create a physical lockup when they get between a shaft and it's bore. I think that's what has happened in this case.
Joe
Miriam gave me a Wizard brand sewing machine that had been exposed to rain and the needle bar end was seized solid.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]541319[/ATTACH]
NOTHING I could do, nothing I soaked it in, would work to loosen up the needle bar. Everything else freed up.
Finally realizing that the machine was junk as it sat and good for nothing but parts, and that I had nothing to loose, I disconnected the clamp connecting the needle bar to the crank and broke out the propane torch. Then using the direct heat of the flame tip I applied heat to the cast iron housing so it would expand, and soaked it with ATF. After a while of that I began to get rusty oil running down the needle bar under the seized area.
Heat it, (not to the point of melting anything or discoloring the metal, just hot) soaking it, then repeating a few times began to get results. Then I put a screwdriver against the base and pried up against the bottom of the needle bar. Eventually it moved. Once I had the needle bar up I cleaned the rust off of the bar and tapped it down. Cleaned more rust off of it.
That worked. After reassembling it I put the Wizard and all it's pieces in a box about 2 1/2 years ago due to other projects and haven't finished it yet. But just before the move I checked it and the machine is so free it spins easily. It is fixable now.
This was admittedly a worst case scenario, but for your 201 I think you need to clean off all the stuff you've used and get some real heat to the casting around the needle bar so the Tri-Flow or ATF or Kroil or what ever you use can actually get between the needle bar and the cast iron housing. Rust flakes can create a physical lockup when they get between a shaft and it's bore. I think that's what has happened in this case.
Joe
#26
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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I remember that machine and the place I found it... I was overwhelmed with that one. Out of 62 machines that was one of the worst. There was one fancy Kenmore in worse shape - I left it in that barn... When you store things even in bad conditions a case can prevent a lot of that kind of mess. I don't think it was left in the rain but it was in a big barn with no door so same thing... It was the same barn that I found a Singer 15 blackline all rusted up - it isn't the prettiest but I got it working. The table was a pile of sticks but I saved it for the hardware... Other machines were ok but there was a lot of mold on broken tables - I left them to be burned... I did learn a lot with that many machines to unfreeze or otherwise make work. The other barns were weather tight for the most part. I got the left overs from a giant hoarder yard sale just before the property sale closed. It took two days to haul all those machines. We got 62 machines hauled in our van & I'm thinking we had 30 or 40 tables in there between the two loads. I'm thinking we might have driven out of our way to avoid hills... There were 3 barns full. The machines were on the bottom of the piles and the "good" ones already sold...well so they said... The family didn't know there were sewing machines in there the first year. one family member kept trying to give me old bowling balls...
Last edited by miriam; 01-28-2016 at 03:41 AM.
#27
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The reason to use heat is to expand the parts so penetrating oil can get inside to do it's job. Sometimes a hair dryer is not enough.
Miriam gave me a Wizard brand sewing machine that had been exposed to rain and the needle bar end was seized solid.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]541319[/ATTACH]
NOTHING I could do, nothing I soaked it in, would work to loosen up the needle bar. Everything else freed up.
Finally realizing that the machine was junk as it sat and good for nothing but parts, and that I had nothing to loose, I disconnected the clamp connecting the needle bar to the crank and broke out the propane torch. Then using the direct heat of the flame tip I applied heat to the cast iron housing so it would expand, and soaked it with ATF. After a while of that I began to get rusty oil running down the needle bar under the seized area.
Heat it, (not to the point of melting anything or discoloring the metal, just hot) soaking it, then repeating a few times began to get results. Then I put a screwdriver against the base and pried up against the bottom of the needle bar. Eventually it moved. Once I had the needle bar up I cleaned the rust off of the bar and tapped it down. Cleaned more rust off of it.
That worked. After reassembling it I put the Wizard and all it's pieces in a box about 2 1/2 years ago due to other projects and haven't finished it yet. But just before the move I checked it and the machine is so free it spins easily. It is fixable now.
This was admittedly a worst case scenario, but for your 201 I think you need to clean off all the stuff you've used and get some real heat to the casting around the needle bar so the Tri-Flow or ATF or Kroil or what ever you use can actually get between the needle bar and the cast iron housing. Rust flakes can create a physical lockup when they get between a shaft and it's bore. I think that's what has happened in this case.
Joe
Miriam gave me a Wizard brand sewing machine that had been exposed to rain and the needle bar end was seized solid.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]541319[/ATTACH]
NOTHING I could do, nothing I soaked it in, would work to loosen up the needle bar. Everything else freed up.
Finally realizing that the machine was junk as it sat and good for nothing but parts, and that I had nothing to loose, I disconnected the clamp connecting the needle bar to the crank and broke out the propane torch. Then using the direct heat of the flame tip I applied heat to the cast iron housing so it would expand, and soaked it with ATF. After a while of that I began to get rusty oil running down the needle bar under the seized area.
Heat it, (not to the point of melting anything or discoloring the metal, just hot) soaking it, then repeating a few times began to get results. Then I put a screwdriver against the base and pried up against the bottom of the needle bar. Eventually it moved. Once I had the needle bar up I cleaned the rust off of the bar and tapped it down. Cleaned more rust off of it.
That worked. After reassembling it I put the Wizard and all it's pieces in a box about 2 1/2 years ago due to other projects and haven't finished it yet. But just before the move I checked it and the machine is so free it spins easily. It is fixable now.
This was admittedly a worst case scenario, but for your 201 I think you need to clean off all the stuff you've used and get some real heat to the casting around the needle bar so the Tri-Flow or ATF or Kroil or what ever you use can actually get between the needle bar and the cast iron housing. Rust flakes can create a physical lockup when they get between a shaft and it's bore. I think that's what has happened in this case.
Joe
i was going to mention a torch as well but figured if evaporust was frowned upon, then no way would that fly around here.
A hair dryer is good to losen old grease but not enough to unstick rusted parts.
If two months of oiling hasn't worked, more oil isn't going to work.
And even with a torch, it may need to be tapped or pried on. And with a metal hammer. You need the shock and a rubber mallet won't do it. If you mar up the finish, it can be fixed. I'd even try getting a bar under it and whack the other end down, like how a seesaw works to get it up (if it's not at its highest position)
I've had to get many a rusted parts apart in my time. I've worked on lots of old cars and trucks sitting in pastures for decades. I've had to make tools to get things apart even. At some point you realize the thing is worthless as it sits all locked up and get the guts to get "more persuasive".
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Last edited by Sammie1; 01-28-2016 at 04:23 AM.
#28
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
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Sammie1,
I use Evapo-rust a lot. I've never poured it on something like the rusted needle bar though. It might be worth a try. After all, it's job is to dissolve rust. At the time I did the Wizard I didn't have any to try.
Agree with you about the rest.
Joe
I use Evapo-rust a lot. I've never poured it on something like the rusted needle bar though. It might be worth a try. After all, it's job is to dissolve rust. At the time I did the Wizard I didn't have any to try.
Agree with you about the rest.
Joe
#30
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When I got the needle bar off that Kenmore I put a block of wood on the machine and under the needle bar plywood under that to protect the machine. Then I put an old hammer head between and banged on that with a big hammer to lever it up. Once it got up a little, I was able to pull the needle bar out with vice grips. The needle bar was not bent but I tried another one anyway it was visibly the shaft not lining up. When you get it off let us know what you find.
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