Vintage Sewing Machine Shop.....Come on in and sit a spell
07-05-2015, 04:01 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 160
I couldn't stop considering the definition of transverse and vibrating shuttle, and ended up here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbin_driver
Possibly this is not definitive, but it clarifies things for me. A bullet shuttle on an arcing path is vibrating; a boat shuttle on a straight path is transverse. But that makes the 1890s Hengstenberg-Anker a hybrid, as well as the Singer 48K. It has a straight path, but a bullet shuttle. Curious business, these old machines.
Dianne in Colorado
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbin_driver
Possibly this is not definitive, but it clarifies things for me. A bullet shuttle on an arcing path is vibrating; a boat shuttle on a straight path is transverse. But that makes the 1890s Hengstenberg-Anker a hybrid, as well as the Singer 48K. It has a straight path, but a bullet shuttle. Curious business, these old machines.
Dianne in Colorado
07-05-2015, 06:17 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Victorian Sweatshop Forum
Posts: 4,096
I couldn't stop considering the definition of transverse and vibrating shuttle, and ended up here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbin_driver
Possibly this is not definitive, but it clarifies things for me. A bullet shuttle on an arcing path is vibrating; a boat shuttle on a straight path is transverse. But that makes the 1890s Hengstenberg-Anker a hybrid, as well as the Singer 48K. It has a straight path, but a bullet shuttle. Curious business, these old machines.
Dianne in Colorado
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbin_driver
Possibly this is not definitive, but it clarifies things for me. A bullet shuttle on an arcing path is vibrating; a boat shuttle on a straight path is transverse. But that makes the 1890s Hengstenberg-Anker a hybrid, as well as the Singer 48K. It has a straight path, but a bullet shuttle. Curious business, these old machines.
Dianne in Colorado
I thought the difference is whether it goes front to back or whether it goes side to side.
Cari
07-06-2015, 04:43 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,049
thrums that is a high price for the FW you can find them cheaper that that. What is your birth year? I may have one. My hubby found a FW that is the same month,day,year for me. He said that was a gotta have machine. I use my FW for piecing. Love them.
07-06-2015, 07:37 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Lorenzo, CA
Posts: 5,361
Vibrating Shuttle: One that "Vibrates" or move back and forth
Transverse Shuttle" One that move transverse (perpendicular) to the direction of operation (Think Transverse engine in modern cars)
Anker/Hengstenberg: Transverse Shuttle using the Wittler mechanism. (yes, sort of a transitional design)
History Here :http://www.needlebar.org/bb2/viewtop...1&p=4267#p4267
07-06-2015, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 160
Cari and Steve,
I can't get to the needlebar page, but have read information before on Wittier and his mechanism. It works so nicely that one wonders why it wasn't adopted more widely.
The definitions seem a bit contrived from all sources - both transverse and vibrating shuttles 'vibrate' if vibrate means to move back and forth. Words change meanings over the years, and applying a term used for modern cars to 19th century sewing machines might not be accurate. Context can also change the meaning of a word. The Wikipedia information is specific to these 'obsolete' sewing machines. Possibly the terms used were chosen initially to simply differentiate between the mechanisms involved, but not necessarily accurately define them.
It's something to puzzle over but not argue about, and most machines fit one category or the other. The Jones Hand and similar machines are also unusual, but with a straight line and a boat shuttle, they appear closer to transverse than vibrating in the way they function, even though the shuttles move front to back.
Dianne in Colorado
I can't get to the needlebar page, but have read information before on Wittier and his mechanism. It works so nicely that one wonders why it wasn't adopted more widely.
The definitions seem a bit contrived from all sources - both transverse and vibrating shuttles 'vibrate' if vibrate means to move back and forth. Words change meanings over the years, and applying a term used for modern cars to 19th century sewing machines might not be accurate. Context can also change the meaning of a word. The Wikipedia information is specific to these 'obsolete' sewing machines. Possibly the terms used were chosen initially to simply differentiate between the mechanisms involved, but not necessarily accurately define them.
It's something to puzzle over but not argue about, and most machines fit one category or the other. The Jones Hand and similar machines are also unusual, but with a straight line and a boat shuttle, they appear closer to transverse than vibrating in the way they function, even though the shuttles move front to back.
Dianne in Colorado
07-06-2015, 05:26 PM
Super Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Round Rock,Texas
Posts: 6,135
Cari and Steve,
I can't get to the needlebar page, but have read information before on Wittier and his mechanism. It works so nicely that one wonders why it wasn't adopted more widely.
The definitions seem a bit contrived from all sources - both transverse and vibrating shuttles 'vibrate' if vibrate means to move back and forth. Words change meanings over the years, and applying a term used for modern cars to 19th century sewing machines might not be accurate. Context can also change the meaning of a word. The Wikipedia information is specific to these 'obsolete' sewing machines. Possibly the terms used were chosen initially to simply differentiate between the mechanisms involved, but not necessarily accurately define them.
It's something to puzzle over but not argue about, and most machines fit one category or the other. The Jones Hand and similar machines are also unusual, but with a straight line and a boat shuttle, they appear closer to transverse than vibrating in the way they function, even though the shuttles move front to back.
Dianne in Colorado
I can't get to the needlebar page, but have read information before on Wittier and his mechanism. It works so nicely that one wonders why it wasn't adopted more widely.
The definitions seem a bit contrived from all sources - both transverse and vibrating shuttles 'vibrate' if vibrate means to move back and forth. Words change meanings over the years, and applying a term used for modern cars to 19th century sewing machines might not be accurate. Context can also change the meaning of a word. The Wikipedia information is specific to these 'obsolete' sewing machines. Possibly the terms used were chosen initially to simply differentiate between the mechanisms involved, but not necessarily accurately define them.
It's something to puzzle over but not argue about, and most machines fit one category or the other. The Jones Hand and similar machines are also unusual, but with a straight line and a boat shuttle, they appear closer to transverse than vibrating in the way they function, even though the shuttles move front to back.
Dianne in Colorado
Try this link instead: http://needlebar.org/cm/displayimage..._display_media
Sharon in Texas
07-07-2015, 07:39 AM
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 160
Sharon,
Thank you for the link, but it also doesn't work.......my 12-year-old computer might be obsolete too. I guess the new question is, when were transverse machines given that name? "Vibrator" was commonly used for vibrating shuttle machines, and the manuals frequently had the term on the cover. But transverse? Old manuals and SM histories may give the answer.
Dianne in Colorado
Thank you for the link, but it also doesn't work.......my 12-year-old computer might be obsolete too. I guess the new question is, when were transverse machines given that name? "Vibrator" was commonly used for vibrating shuttle machines, and the manuals frequently had the term on the cover. But transverse? Old manuals and SM histories may give the answer.
Dianne in Colorado
07-07-2015, 08:55 AM
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Lorenzo, CA
Posts: 5,361
"Transverse" motion is a term that has been around WAY longer than sewing machines. The first machines made had shuttles that moved in a transverse motion and therefore were "always" referred to as Transverse machines. I have hard copies of manuals dating back to the 1870's and digital copies of some from the 1860's. they all refer to the motion as transverse.
To complete the loop, the reason the first machines were "transverse" is because the the technology that was already in existence was the loom, which use the same motion. That is also why they are called shuttles, just like the ones used for weaving fabric. It was the creation of the eye pointed needle that was the key to the whole process. (they tried the hole in EVERY conceivable location, including the middle of the needle... )
To complete the loop, the reason the first machines were "transverse" is because the the technology that was already in existence was the loom, which use the same motion. That is also why they are called shuttles, just like the ones used for weaving fabric. It was the creation of the eye pointed needle that was the key to the whole process. (they tried the hole in EVERY conceivable location, including the middle of the needle... )
Last edited by SteveH; 07-07-2015 at 08:58 AM.
07-07-2015, 11:07 AM
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 160
Thank you, Steve! You are very knowledgeable about all of the historic information related to sewing machines. The loom and its terminology is a logical starting point for sewing machine terminology. The eye-pointed needle, itself an essential part of the sewing machine, is something people rarely stop to consider.
I appreciate your time in answering my confused musings......
Dianne in Colorado
I appreciate your time in answering my confused musings......
Dianne in Colorado
07-07-2015, 11:37 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Lorenzo, CA
Posts: 5,361
Dianne - My pleasure. I give those speeches a lot...
I agree, most folks do not realize how may different methods were used before they came up with the "obvious" solution of the needle at the tip. The first attempts were actually like crochet hooks with a barb instead of a hole. The system with the needle in the middle actually tried to use two sets of arms to pass the needle back and forth through the fabric.... Talk about timing issues!!!!
I agree, most folks do not realize how may different methods were used before they came up with the "obvious" solution of the needle at the tip. The first attempts were actually like crochet hooks with a barb instead of a hole. The system with the needle in the middle actually tried to use two sets of arms to pass the needle back and forth through the fabric.... Talk about timing issues!!!!
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